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Weed Worship And Waking Up: I Dab Before Church & Other Passions To Overcome - An Orthodox Reaction
A short viral video can carry a heavy lesson. In this conversation, we react to a clip of a man cheerfully taking a dab before heading into worship, then trace why that mindset feels so normal in a culture where access, approval, and algorithmic affirmation are everywhere. Josiah, now over three years sober, speaks from the inside: how weed became a crutch, how he convinced himself it was harmless, and how a vague, individualized faith left him without friction. The quiet part is said out loud—when church becomes a crowd and “check the box” routine, almost anything can be baptized as personal freedom.
The episode digs into prelest, the ancient word for spiritual delusion. It names the subtle fog where we crown our impulses as insight and confuse a buzz for peace. We explore why “Scripture doesn’t name marijuana” becomes a convenient shield, and how eisegesis—reading our desire into the text—lets us weaponize “God made plants” to dodge sober judgment. The question is not botany; it is the state of the heart and mind we bring to Christ. If worship asks for a clear conscience and a sober mind, does a self-induced altered state fit anywhere near the chalice?
From there we contrast scaffolds. In many megachurch settings, low demands and soft edges feel welcoming, but they also make it easy to hide. Orthodoxy introduces a different rhythm: confession to a spiritual father, fasting as preparation, public gestures of mutual forgiveness, and weekly self-examination before communion. These practices do not exist to shame but to heal. They put light on the interior life and make denial harder. Accountability is not surveillance; it is a structure that makes repentance normal and restoration possible.
Josiah shares the psychology of relapse math: one glass of wine can become the excuse that justifies the next hit. He draws a clear boundary for himself without projecting it onto everyone else, naming how different bodies and histories require different guardrails. Yet he also calls out the difference between a Saturday night overstep and an intentional plan to walk into worship high. The former still needs repentance, but the latter tries to redefine sobriety as spirituality. That is not mercy; it is confusion dressed as freedom.
We widen the lens to a medicated society where dispensaries sit on corners and pharmacies inside grocery stores. No one stands outside temptation. The point is not to rank sins but to seek healing that touches both soul and body. Here Orthodoxy’s insistence that grace is tangible matters: communion, chrismation, and the ascetic life do not offer a magic switch, but they do offer medicine that works on the person as a whole. Healing is a long obedience, not a dopamine hack; it is the slow renewal of desire under the care of the Church.
Where does this leave the listener wrestling with weed, shame, or mixed messages? Begin with honesty. Ask for help. Let a trusted pastor or spiritual father test your self-story, because we are all the worst judges of our own case. Practice small acts of preparation—prayer, fasting, confession—that make communion more than a line you join. If you need stricter boundaries, take them without apology. Joy grows in clarity. Sobriety is not a downgrade from experience; it is the condition for seeing God and loving your neighbor without a haze.
Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdh
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Please leave a comment with your thoughts!
So can we before going to church? Protestantism, mega churchism. In those circles, you can slip to the crack. I take a dab, then I go to church. Like this guy who'll be like, you know, people that are criticizing me just have a religious spirit. You know, they're just, you know, these are the Pharisees, that kind of thing. All that matters is his relationship with Jesus. Yeah. You can you they don't hold you to a higher standard.
SPEAKER_00:As a Protestant, you have one thing, and that's some of the scriptura. Yeah. And to my knowledge, scripture doesn't really name Marijuana by name.
SPEAKER_01:Scripture is to be like, well, you know, God gave us some little plans and like anything points out.
SPEAKER_00:One of the worst source of any objective truth about ourselves.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Because of course what I'm doing is okay.
SPEAKER_01:Of course it's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_00:It's fine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think about it a long time.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's gonna be feeling good about this. Because they're catering to the masses. Hi, welcome to Cloud of Witnesses. Jeremy Jeremiah here. We have a great episode for you. Smoking marijuana and then going to church. Josiah is our guest. He's over three years sober now, but he has experienced using marijuana, calling himself a Christian. We talk about that issue, the very important issue of sobriety and of addiction. We hope that you enjoy this episode. Remember, if you do, please talk to us down in the comments. Let us know what you think. Give this uh video a like. If you haven't already, please subscribe, and we'll see you at the end. Enjoy. You ready for this? Yeah, man. Let's see it. That happened fast. Yeah. He's in his car. Rip a little bong. A little rip on the bong. And then into praise and worship music.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I take a dab, then I go to church. Interesting. Josiah. Yeah. You were telling me. Yes. You know what this experience is like.
SPEAKER_01:I do. Yeah, I do, unfortunately. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. You're not there anymore. Not there anymore. Thanks be to God. What uh what what was it like? Well Yeah, I mean, you know, I think I don't know this guy's story, I don't know his heart, but at least for me, you know, being in a spot where, you know, you're you're dealing with you know different substances or different addictions, and uh weed for me or you know, marijuana was definitely uh a crutch for sure. And so in this time where I was going to uh you know a mega church similar to that, you know, the this worship looks like that, totally, you can kind of hide in the crowd because the demands of the church are not as rigorous as you know what we've both learned in you know to be in orthodoxy, right? So you can kind of like fit your kind of worldview into that non-denominational scene, yeah. Ripping a dab before church, and I was there too, you know. Maybe not as explicit. I don't think I ever would go to church high because I had a little shame about it. Yeah, but he obviously doesn't. But I definitely rationalized it as something that is okay, that God's okay with me doing this, you know. He's a very much more extreme example, but right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean he's he's loud and proud, but doing these videos about it. Right. You know, Josiah, you you talked about the you know, kind of the lack of accountability. Right. Um, I remember that so well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and you know, Lord forgive me. Um, but as a Protestant Christian for so many years, I took advantage of that. I used to sit in the back or come in whenever I wanted to. And, you know, it almost felt like I'd I'd check the box. You checked the box. Went to church. Yeah. Hey, hey, mom, yeah, I went to church today. Yeah. But then I was back to my life, you know, living however I wanted. Right. Um and I did that for a long time, man. Yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think this it's a small clip, but I think it encapsulates pretty well, sort of like probably at its worst, what could happen in these sort of scenes. Because I definitely was there in terms of like rationalizing. I was at a point where I was using weed like he is, and mentally I was like, I'm good. I'm not right. There's what's wrong? It's just it's just weed. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_00:It's the mentality I know.
SPEAKER_01:Like I'm not over, I'm not addicted to it. I was, but convincing myself I wasn't. Sure, sure. You're not doing math. Right, exactly. Yeah. But I think in that, like what I was saying before, in that context of non-denomination, non-denominationalism or evangelicalism, Protestantism, mega churchism, right? In those circles, you can slip the cracks. You can you they don't hold you to a higher standard. Right. Because they're catering to the masses, they're catering to popular the popular opinion of what church is.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:It's not good. It's not good for numbers, it's not good for uh church retention to tell people to repent and to and that they have to do certain things.
SPEAKER_00:And they have to do certain things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it it it makes me think about, you know, if this gentleman, and you know, and God bless him, I pray for you know his soul and and that he you know comes to find um you know where God would have him.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um but in an in an orthodox environment could this happen? Sure, of course it could. It could, yeah, right? But at least at the parish I attend, the the priest after a while would begin to ask, Oh, you know, have have you been to confession recently? You know? Yeah, would the priest say before every holy communion? Holy communion is for those who are prepared through prayer, fasting, and confession, and only those are able to come forward for communion. Yeah. So you're having to self-examine yourself every Sunday, at least every Sunday. Yeah. You're gonna have a father a conversation with your father confessor. You're going to be um having to go through forgiveness Sunday, which I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01:I haven't been a part of it, but I understand if I've seen it, I've seen it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It is absolutely incredible. We're literally you're gonna be asking for forgiveness from the entire church, one person at a time. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Is this gonna come up?
SPEAKER_01:Right, right? Yeah, it sort of puts the spotlight on the innermost parts of your life and it projects that to the maybe not necessarily the whole church. In Forgiveness Sunday, it does. You know, you you're there's aspects of, you know, there's a community, you're coming together, and the community is repenting, right? Right. But at least to your your father confessor, as you were saying, you have to bear your sins to somebody, and scripture says, but I think he's dealing with an issue that I was dealing with, not recognizing it as a sin. Sure. So I don't know where that, I mean, I know where I I I came to understand my whole life didn't reflect Christ, and obviously that was a part of it.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:How does someone like this who seems like he's having a great relationship with Christ at church and but how do you smoke weed? Where does someone where'd he go from there?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I it's it's a great point, Josiah. I, you know a word comes to mind, you know, we talked about a little bit earlier, pre-lest, you know, which is this really is a spiritual delusion. Yep, right. And we're we're all guilty of it at times and and during different times of our lives. And what I think, you know, and again, not saying anything about this person in as an individual, I don't know his life, I don't know his what he's dealing with, uh all these things. And I don't I would not pretend to judge the salvation of any human being on earth.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um but the idea that it's okay to me is just flat wrong. It just has to be wrong. We know for one that marijuana in 2025 is a powerful drug.
SPEAKER_01:Very powerful, right?
SPEAKER_00:And it puts you in a different state of mind. You are self-medicating, right? It's a mind-altering substance. Very much so. And if that's true, and we're called to come to Christ with what? With a renewed heart, with a clean heart, right? Sober mind, with a sober mind, and not to be holding things against our brothers, but to discern, right? To come worthily into all these things, and to do so in a state of mind that is anything less than sober, right, as you said. Right. I don't see how there that can be right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think that I for sure was in a state of pre-less in that specific example of thinking, you know, I'm not addicted to this. This is a natural thing, you know, all the things. All I was using the arguments from, you know, non-Christians against Christians, why I as a Christian can use marijuana. Right. God created it. Right is he. It was like, well, people that all the these people are telling me I shouldn't do it, or like at least people that oh uh people didn't know I did what did I was it was under the you know behind the scenes. Sure. But to justify it, I was like, well, the people that if they knew that I did that, well, they just they don't really know what using marijuana is like, or they don't you really know what using weed is like. It's really pretty chill, you know. Like I smoke how we eat, I go pray. This is really where I was at. Lord have mercy. Yeah. Truly, because I mean, in a sense, the similar way where this guy's at. Um, and my relationship with Christ was so shallow, it was not, it was non-existent. It was true pre-list because it's I thought, oh, the even I even remember I was trying to look at it in my notes because I thought I maybe had it in my phone notes, but it was on a journal that I wrote. I was going through life, I was really trying struggling, I was trying to find a relationship with Christ, but I was really addicted to using weed. Yeah. I remember writing this list out of like kind of goals, you know. I remember like read scripture, like work out. And I remember writing this thing. I remember said, use I said cannabis because cannabis sounds better than weed, right? It just makes my mind, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Use cannabis as a tool. I remember writing that down in my like goals. I was so caught up in that that I was like convincing myself, like this is like a spiritual tool. It's such a like a very unchristian sort of way of looking at it. And I remember he's writing that down because I was so caught up in this whole it's just prelate. That's what it was. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think Josiah? Do you think that this is or maybe ask it this way?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How common do you think this is?
SPEAKER_01:Very common, at least in for sure in the evangelical streams, because there is no single you won't find a church, or you you know, you won't you can't find a single statement of like this is not acceptable because it's so you know, between all the churches, you know, you for sure will find people that would say this is this is wrong. Right, right. But even if you go to a church that says that, this is what I was doing. I remember looking like, is there anywhere my pastor saying talks about it for sure? I found a little sermon where he's saying, not good, probably not good. Interesting. Unless you're like struggling with cancer, you know, yeah. If you're just using this as a regulatory, probably not good. Yeah, yeah. And I remember hearing that, I was like, Well, let me find that. I went so as far as to find this wacky podcast, you could probably still find it, about some Christian pastor talking about, you know, he discovered weed and how it was his connection to God. And I was like, okay, well, this guy's doing, you know, at least common denominator guy's doing it. I'm good to go. Yep. Because in that Protestant mindset, there's no like binding, governing scaffolding that you were talking about. Yes. That's like, wait, that's way outside the scaffolding. What are you doing? You can't, right? That's not gonna, your salvation's very affected if you, you know, there was none of that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Josiah, because that's where my mind was going. Right. As a Protestant, you have one thing, and that's sola scriptura.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And to my knowledge, scripture doesn't really name marijuana by name, it's not prohibited in scripture by name.
SPEAKER_01:And you can kind of twist isogenically uh some scriptures to be like, well, you know, God gave us all the plants and the earth, and like you know, absolutely, and so from a Protestant perspective, you're right.
SPEAKER_00:It's kind of hard to see why it is forbidden. Right. Why is it outside the because let's face it, perfectly okay. Someone the night before was out with his buddies, right, out with his wife. Yeah, yeah, maybe had an extra, a couple extra glasses of wine, right? Probably shouldn't have. But are we chastising that person who walks into church on Sunday morning? Not in the same way that we're looking at this guy. No. And I think that's something that's important too, is that it'd be easy for you and I right now to sit here, Josiah, and be like, oh man, this guy, this poor guy was lost, right? We're we're all sinners. We're all broken, right? We all need the hospital for the soul. And and so it's not about judgment, but I think what it does, it kind of brings into a sharp contrast, seeing it so clearly, a guy, you know, uh smoking a bowl before he goes into um the church, how different you just remove it by a few hours. If you're if you're doing the same thing on a Saturday night, right? Well, you're no better off. I'm no better off. Exactly. You know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I think there's that that that that was always, you know, I'm I've been sober now for three years.
SPEAKER_00:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:And I weed was the biggest problem I had, right? So I cut that out. But I would still drink occasionally. Yeah. And it what for me, I think everyone has like their own sort of, you know, legalism in terms of like everyone has their own personal sort of legalism, right? For me, I I can't drink, I can't obviously smoke weed. But you know, we were hanging out tonight, some of us are having beers, you know, you're having a glass of wine. Yeah, it doesn't bother me. I'm not, I don't get weirded out, but for me, I just can't do it because once that glass of wine comes, I start making excuses in my head. Well, sure, we're having wine. Jeremy had wine, right? What's the difference if before I go to bed I have I just take a little hit? Yeah, what's the difference? I'm like my brain will immediately go there. Absolutely. Not everyone will. You'll have a glass of wine tonight and have a great time. It's not for me. And I don't judge anyone else, but you know, there's some people I think they're just more predisposed to like addictions and stuff, and I had to figure that out the hard way. Right. And I think that is a lot of people, probably. Um, but you know, that's just me personally. But I think there is that difference of smoking weed right before you go to church. What is it? I think he's communicating something very poignant of like I'm smoking weed and going to church high. Right. What's wrong? Right. He's trying to like peek on people who are like, you can't do it that way. Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, like you're saying, you you get a lot of people like this guy who'll be like, you know, people that are criticizing me just have a religious spirit, you know. They're just, you know, these are the Pharisees, that kind of thing. All that matters is his relationship with Jesus. Yeah. Right. And I think it's for me, that's where I was at. Yeah. And that thinking, it's hard. Whenever I talk about this, it's hard because it's like, wait, you don't care about your relationship with Jesus? That's another thing that matters. That's the thing that matters, but it's a different perspective than this is just me in my own bubble of yeah. You nailed it, Josiah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh Deacon Anthony um uh at St. Anthony's. Uh he was sat in that same chair, and it was so great having him on the podcast. And he said something that really stuck with me. And it was basically what you were just saying, which is the problem with that Protestant view of a guy like this who in his own head he's justified this, he's making this a point. This is as he's dying on this hill, right? He's deciding that it's okay. Right. And Deacon Anthony points out we're the worst source of any objective truth about ourselves. Exactly. Because of course what I'm doing is okay. Of course it's good. Of course it's fine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I thought about it a long time.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I think it's good. I feel good about this, you know. Yeah. And so and so I think you know, that blindness that we don't even we should know. We should be aware about ourselves, but most of us aren't. Um, I think that's what allows people to kind of fall into a trap like this. Yeah, yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um I I pray to God it's not happening a ton. You know, I really do. Um, but it makes me wonder now, you know.
SPEAKER_01:It's a big temptation. I mean, you drive down the street, you know, not everywhere, at least where we live, like it's different city to city, but at least in Vista where I live, yeah. It's a a city where you know dispensaries are allowed. And sure it's a huge for a long time, not anymore, thanks be to God, but for a long time it was a huge temptation driving down the street and you see a dispenser in every corner, in every corner. Yeah, it's a very prevalent thing in in our society, I think, that especially young men, you know, kind of coping. And sure. It's an easy, it's a real easy uh way to kind of get your mind off the feelings you're feeling. It works it works, it's effective.
SPEAKER_00:And it's so socially accepted right now. Exactly. You know what I mean? Especially I in fact, you know, I think you and I just had to run out and go check your car uh in the parking lot. And I don't know if you smelled it, but right outside, someone I I smelled it. Right. You know, yeah, and that's not uncommon. No, no, no, no. And and I'm sure that can be probably a challenge too. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Josiah, uh, you know, I we we don't won't go too much longer here, but it the whole subject of addiction and substance abuse, yeah. You know, again, it's so easy to pick on certain segments of that group, right? Yep. Oh, the the guy that's so drunk he, you know, he's in rehab, yeah. The the you know, fentanyl people and all this stuff, right? Yeah. We live in a highly medicated society. Yeah, we do. There's a pharmacy in every target, in every CVS, think about that. Yeah, I don't know. Everywhere, right, right. How you know what did Christ say? You who was who is without sin cast the first stone, right? We we are not above these things. Just because we don't have that particular sin doesn't mean we're not struggling with seven others. Yeah. And I just would, I don't know. I just hope that we can try to through through your spiritual father and and the guidance of the church, like we talked about the scaffolding of the church, that you'll come to see that we're all broken and that we're all seeking healing in Christ. Yeah. And hopefully, you know, maybe this video will help somebody who's maybe dealing with this right now.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. And I think that was the on-ramp in my journey towards orthodoxy. I was sick, I was dealing with all my addictions and passions, mainly just my through my substance abuse that was really wrecking my life. And once I came to sort of understand and stop that and start my journey of repentance alongside my journey towards what's orthodoxy. Let me let me look into this to where I'm at now, and where I'm at now is you know, I'm not, you know, I for slowly be on that journey to become catechumans, God willing, and then. You know, the next step to baptism, you know, all these things. What I'm currently on this journey now is seeking true, full healing through, and I'm just beginning to understand this more of like the real sort of ontological healing through communion, through the sacraments, through baptism, through chrismation, yeah, all these things that provide a level of healing that is not found in any in any place. That I truly believe this. And I haven't even experienced that yet. Right. God willing, I don't have those, I don't, I still I'll say this, I still have those addictions, but I do not engage in them anymore. And it's been that way for a long time.
SPEAKER_00:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:But as I'm recovering from that and as I'm walking towards the church, I'm anticipating that real healing. And not to say that it's like God's just turning another, turning my eye until it's not it's not a magic bullet.
SPEAKER_00:It's not a magic pill. No. You're not gonna be, you're not gonna in one day be like, oh, I'm never even gonna think about that stuff ever again.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. But there is a real sense of healing that can be accomplished in ways that that it just is doesn't exist in places that I was.
SPEAKER_00:So true. Yeah. Um because in orthodoxy, the healing is not merely spiritual.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I I I fear that in Protestantism, certainly in modern Protestantism, they're very close sometimes to Gnosticism. You know, you know, that this stuff doesn't matter. We're gonna get glorified bodies, you know, in heaven. And it's all about the this, you know, your spirit and and and that kind of you know, being filled with the spirit, walking with Christ. Yeah. But they lose sight sometimes of their bodies. They do. And within orthodoxy, we have that beautiful promise of what you were just describing, Joe, is that yes, your spirit is being renewed, of course, but so is your body. Right. Which is really remarkable, you know, and magical.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. So I think people that struggle with um that struggle with addiction, I think they'll find in orthodoxy a more real sense of what does Christian healing look like? I think sometimes addicts probably will cynically laugh off what healing looks like in a Protestant sense, because it's like we deal with such a heavy, like a real heavy burden that when you look at that, it's like, I don't think that's gonna work. And even if it and and I know it has for some people in the sense of that it it's it's helped them get rid of their addictions, but has it truly cleaned you out from the inside? Right. Has it really truly gone in and he done the healing work that Christ can, I think, I believe can accomplish through the Orthodox Church. Amen. That only Christ can do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um there, I'll do a quick plug. We've actually um talked with and done some episodes on addiction. Um, my cousin um is he's been sober now for I want to say 11 years. Wow. Uh and has an amazing story. Yeah. Um and we have uh an addiction doctor, uh Dr. Daniel Age, uh, at our parish as well. And so I brought them together and we'd had these discussions. Wow. Um, so I would encourage the audience to go check those out. Yeah. Um, but Joe, if if if you're interested in discussing, you know, we can maybe talk about that stuff down the road as well. I think these are 100% important and crucial. Yeah. So many people are going through this. 100%. Look at that. You made it to the end. Thank you for listening this long. We hope that you enjoyed this episode. It's an interesting discussion, certainly, and does deserve more. If you're interested, Cloud of Witnesses has talked about this more in depth, including with a uh doctor of addiction and addiction recovery, uh Daniel Age, as well as David Carlson, who has over 11 years of sobriety, uh, an Orthodox Christian. And the conversations are fascinating. I will link them down below. Please also remember all of our content for our Patreons is available early and unedited and uncut. So if you'd like to see this episode in its entirety, please go check out our Patreon. It is the best way to support Cloud of Witnesses and this ministry continuing to bring you this content, which we hope uh and pray is edifying and for your salvation. Thank you for being here. We will see you on the next one. Bye bye. And don't forget, down in the comments, let us know what we got right, but most importantly, let us know what we get wrong.