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The Most Loving Thing: Telling the Ugliest Truth | Cat On A Hot Tin Roof Story & Film Exploration

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Truth That Burns, Love That Heals (Cat on a Hot Tin Roof)

What if the most loving thing you can do is tell the ugliest truth? We gather the crew: Jeremy Jeremiah, Bri, James St. Simon, and Mario Andrew, to sit with Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and pull apart the mendacity that keeps a family polished on the outside and starved on the inside. With literature professor James St. Simon and the team, we unpack Maggie’s raw persistence, Brick’s calculated indifference, and Big Daddy’s denial, tracing how confrontation becomes care when someone finally says what everyone already knows.

A family built on mendacity tries to hold shape while money, memory, and desire pull it apart. We trace how hard truth cuts open the wound, why Maggie stays on the roof, and how Brick’s numbness begins to thaw when lies finally fail.

• Maggie’s persistence as a test of love
• Brick’s addiction as avoidance of grief and desire
• Big Daddy’s denial and the cost of false reassurance
• The hot tin roof as a metaphor for truth and marriage
• Succession, status, and how families buy distraction
• Confession as an act of care, not cruelty
• Surgical model of reconciliation and slow healing
• Rain, sobriety, and the fragile hope of renewal

We start in that charged bedroom where Maggie claws for connection and Brick drowns in bourbon, then widen to the loud halls where inheritance schemes and polite lies pass for affection. Along the way, we explore the hot tin roof as a living metaphor: love that burns but purifies, truth that hurts but heals. We talk addiction beyond the bottle—shopping, status, busyness—and why families so often choose props over presence. The turning point comes as Brick forces Big Daddy to face mortality and Big Daddy forces Brick to face desire, betrayal, and grief. No flashbacks, no easy answers—just voices, pressure, and the slow relief that only honesty can bring.

From there, we map a practical path through reconciliation. Think surgery: you cut, remove the rot, and accept the scar. The rain-soaked confrontation reads like a baptism; Brick’s first dry minute hints that sober love is possible when denial finally breaks. The film’s ending resists fantasy, leaving stitches instead of smooth skin, and that’s the point. Healing is real, but it’s slow. If you’ve ever chosen distraction over intimacy or kept peace by keeping quiet, this conversation offers language, courage, and a way back to the table.

If this resonated, subscribe, share it with a friend who loves classic cinema and honest talk, and leave a review with the truth you’re choosing to face next.

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SPEAKER_00:

Love it's it's challenging. Um you have to face the the reality of your own ugliness.

SPEAKER_04:

I think that was the beauty of like that was where the family love really came into place was like tell me the truth. And the truth came out to be something that they ha they didn't even realize. Like, I I didn't think that was the lie, but I guess that was the lie.

SPEAKER_01:

Break when he's offered a drink again later. I big daddy, it's like you can see the truth has brought healing, right? We've always said this the truth is Christ, Christ is the way, the truth is the life, in that truth, and Christ is the great physician.

SPEAKER_03:

Nothing at all.

SPEAKER_01:

Marty was working on a school project, yeah, so I didn't really get to see the film.

SPEAKER_03:

I I was there, but I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, Jeremy Jeremiah here, Cloud of Witnesses. We're really excited about this one. Whether you've seen the play, Cat on a hot tin roof, read it, saw the movie, or didn't. This is a story about marriage, it's a story about relationships, it's the challenges of life, the challenges of love in this world. We have the benefit of James St. Simon, who's a literature professor, not to mention the rest of our cast and crew. If you would like the full, unedited, uncut episode that's over at our Patreon right now. Enjoy. Welcome to Cloud of Witnesses. This is Jeremy Jeremiah. We have got a fun one for you today. We watched the movie uh Tennessee Williams play A Cat on a hot tin roof, which turns out to be Bree and James's maybe one of your favorite movies of all time. Uh, we've got the crew here with us. We'll um jump into this story. Actually, it's a very powerful, powerful story, um, which we can discuss. Brie, you were saying something right off the bat, right before we started recording. What was that you were saying about it was meant to be filmed in black and white?

SPEAKER_04:

It was meant to be filmed in black and white. Well, I said it because you commented on Paul Newman's eyes. They're so big.

SPEAKER_03:

Did I comment on Paul Newman's eyes? He would. He would.

SPEAKER_04:

As you should, because they are very blue. But this film was supposed to be um in black and white, just to really kind of speak to the tone of the film, which was about truth and lies and all those things. Mundacity, the mondacity of it all. But because they cast Paul Newman and Elizabeth Taylor, who also had violet eyes, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

They decided to do it in color.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_04:

And the test audience also agreed that it needs to be in color.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

So we can appreciate the blue eyes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I they weren't wrong. Yeah, they weren't wrong. Um, I think I had mentioned when we talked about this before, after we had seen the film, um, it was my first time seeing an Elizabeth Taylor film.

SPEAKER_02:

Really?

SPEAKER_01:

And I was really struck. She's beautiful, yes. Um, but she's a great actress as well. And I didn't know because you know, grow growing up, Elizabeth Taylor was you know older and and uh um I just always thought, well, maybe she was just the friends of Michael Jackson. Yeah, right. Starlet of her time. And so I didn't know if she had any acting chops, uh, but but she did a great job. Um, why don't you give us a quick summary of what happens in this story? What is this story about, you guys?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, um, it's a story about um succession, really. Um but it's how a man who built an empire, uh, he is dying, and his children are one is trying to fight to maintain um his legacy. He wants to take on his father's legacy and take control of the company and and you know make sure that they have they get to continue what the father had established. Can we put it plainly? He wants to inherit the riches, he wants to inherit the riches, and um and then he has the other son, Brick, who wants nothing to do with the riches. Um, in fact, he even hates the riches because he feels like that got in the way of his love and his relationship with his father. Um, but in the beginning, we don't know all of this. All we know that is that Brick, who is Paul Newman, is estranged from his wife, who is Elizabeth Taylor, and we don't really know why. The story doesn't reveal what has happened, it gets revealed through dialogue, and this all takes place over, you know, about 24 hours, it seems. Um, that uh little by little we start to get an idea of the family dynamics, what's going on, why their relationship is falling apart. Um, but also their history, the the trauma, the family hurt, the the complications within the family dynamics, and all of the lies that had led to everyone having resentment towards each other for various things, but they also all love each other in a very weird way that at the end it kind of all comes together that although we're all angry, we all kind of despise each other, they were still together, we were all still together, yeah, but it's the lies that kept them from embracing one another, and once they got through all of the lies, they had to confront each other and a very it all kind of culminates in this big bang of everyone's finally saying exactly what they feel in the most aggressive and vile way, even physically, even physically, right? Where she says, I will just scratch your eyes out, you know. Um, I I love that when she's she finally lets out the alley cat and herself. Um, but yeah, it gets it gets violent, but then in the end, once that has all been said, they're able to deal with each other honestly, and that's when you can finally have meaningful conversation and reconciliation.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right. Before we get there, let's talk about what happens in these, and thank you for that. It was a great summary. What happens in those early scenes? Because it's so poignant looking back on it. You have Paul Newman and Elizabeth Taylor in a room basically together. He's drinking like a sailor. Just every second you see the guy, he's taking a shot. He literally is in his whiskey or bourbon or whatever. He's drinking nonstop, completely and totally cold to his his wife. His wife's wife, Elizabeth Taylor, is fawning, is uh almost like, honey, love me, give me attention, right? She's like, I'll do anything for you in a sense. That dynamic, right, that it sets up between this couple, and like you said, it raises the question why is he being so cold to his wife, who's clearly trying to love him and wants to be loved by him, right? And then you see that uh the cacophony outside of their room, right? The kids with the band and you know, Big Daddy at the table, and they're loud and boisterous, and they keep yelling, and you know, there's this whole chaos, I think, about it. What's going on from the storyteller perspective? Like, what is Tennessee Williams doing? And the director of this film, who I think did this masterfully, like you said, it's all in one day, and it's all shot really in a couple of rooms, it seems. How is this done? Why is why is this film such an appealing film? Again, we talked about this. We're in 2025, and we're talking about a film made in the 50s. Yeah, why?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I think it's a film about wanting to be loved. So we see Maggie, who's the wife, right? She calls herself the cat, Maggie the cat. And I think she's the only one that's really honest about her need for love. And like you said, she's fawning over her husband. She's physically like pawing at him, and he's continuing to push her away. And I think she is honest about her need for love, her want for love, and I think every other character is wanting to be loved, but I think they've bought into the lie. And I think Maggie is the only one who's not willing to live that lie anymore. And of course, she's flawed, so she has her own little white lies that she tells throughout the story. But I think for me, why I've always resonated with this film is because, like, let's get to the truth of what everything is. Because that was what was standing in the way of everyone seeing each other for who they are and asking the question, do you still love me? My flaws and all. And of course, Paul Newman is a big draw to the film. And as a kid, you know, I was um, my parents were very strict, so I wasn't allowed to go out very much, which I thank them for now. But I'd always watch Turner Classic movies, and every weekend they had um, I don't know if you remember, they had Summer Under the Stars. So they'd always highlight one actor or actress, and this one was Elizabeth Taylor. So that's how I got introduced to the film. And I think as a teenager, I was really fascinated by that need for truth. Um, it was a very pivotal time in my life. And I think that's why I continue to come back to this film because I'm like, these are people who love each other, who can't get away from each other, and who just want to be seen and want to know the answer of do you still love me, even with my flaws? Right.

SPEAKER_01:

It's called A Cat on a hot tin roof, and you mentioned how Maggie is the cat of this story. James, tell us about this title because there's there's a lot going on there. Who what's the metaphor here?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so um, like like Brie shared, she refers to herself as a cat. And she says she feels like she's a cat on a hot tin roof that's trying to hold on, but she feels like the hot tin roof is burning her, right? And she's trying to hold on to this this marriage, this relationship. Um that it's it's harming her. The way that he's treating her is harming her. Uh, and it's painful to love someone who doesn't love you back. And is it's not even that he doesn't love her back, he's he's treating her with this indifference, which is almost worse.

SPEAKER_01:

Almost disdain.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes. And you you pointed out the the imagery and the setting, how the inside of their room is very quiet, and the outside there's chaos, there's drums, there's singing, there's screaming, there's you know, there's a lot going on out there. But that that outward chaos is masking the the inward manipulation, and um it's like it's a facade of love for the father, but really it's it's it's kind of covering and masking the self-interest that um the older brother and his wife are trying to uh scheme and manipulate Big Daddy to take as well. If you contrast that to what's going on inside, the inside is very quiet, but that quiet is masking the inner chaos of their relationship. And although they're they're they're hiding also in in their their quiet resistance of each other, they're hiding their strong passion for one another. And Paul Newman in his uh indifference towards her is really trying to protect himself because he deeply loves her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I think that's what I love about her character is that she what what's the line that she says? What's the prize for a cat who's not willing to jump off?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, she says to stay on the roof a little longer.

SPEAKER_04:

To stay on as long as I can, right? And like thinking about that imagery of like her paws being burned.

SPEAKER_01:

And yet there's still a reward in that for her.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Because that means she's still with him. As painful as it is.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I sorry, I don't want to cut you off.

SPEAKER_04:

No, and I think like I had read a little bit about the film, and they said how um the hot tin roof represents the truth. How she was the only one in the film, as you can see, that was willing to confront the truth while everyone else had bought into the lie of everything's fine. If we just say everything's fine, everything will be fine. And I think Paul Newman's character was done with that. I don't think he wasn't ready to confront the truth, right? Because he kept running from it with alcohol, literally running and breaking his leg. But Maggie was the only one that was willing to stay on that roof as long as she could and force everyone to see the truth. Right. Which I thought was awesome. I I just love her character.

SPEAKER_01:

I am. I agree completely. I think it's one of the most memorable parts, certainly for me as well, is my first time seeing the film. Um her love for her husband and her willingness, as you said, to sacrifice to stay on that hot tin roof to for another chance, maybe at reconciling this marriage. She even said that one moment, remember when he lashes out in anger. He doesn't hit her or anything, but he his voice is raised. And she even sees hope in that. She's like, good. How does what does she say?

SPEAKER_04:

She gets excited. She's like, a crack in the stone wall.

SPEAKER_01:

A crack in the stone wall, right? Maybe this is the moment that he's gonna open up. I think there's something deeply, deeply true that Tennessee Williams clearly understood about people, and I would say about men. This is, I think, typically how this goes. When it comes to disagreements, issues in relationships, women tend to want to, hey, let's talk this out. Let's not stay angry. Let's uh I'm here. Like, let's do this. And men, I can speak for myself, yeah. Let's let's close that door. I'm fine, I'm not that angry, I'm this, I'm that, I'm gonna move on. When really I haven't moved on inside, right? I I I do need to talk to about it, I should talk about it. Um, and so I think there's just the movie presents this very poignant um presentation of all of our longing for love and to be loved. We talked about um after the film a bit, and I want to touch on it now. A big plot point is that Big Daddy, the father of Elizabeth Taylor of of Gabby, no, Maggie, um, is dying. They kind of the doctor doesn't tell the truth at first, tells them, Oh, you're fine, you're gonna live for a long, long time. But the truth is he's dying, he's dying soon. A lot comes out in terms of when they do start getting honest with each other, James, when they start truly talking to one another. Can you tell us how does that transformation begin to happen? How do we move from the stage we've been talking about so far to where they begin confronting the reality?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's Jordan Peterson who says the truth always brings about the best outcome, right? Um even if it's unfavorable, it's the best outcome because at least you're able to uh deal with uh the genuine uh reality of what's happening. You're able to deal with your genuine uh emotions, uh the problem, and if you know what the problem is, you can you can fix it, right? Um and the interesting thing is that everyone wanted everyone else to face the truth that they themselves were trying to avoid. Um and Brick, so actually, uh Big Daddy was Brick's dad, right? Um sorry, thank you. And so Brick wants his dad to know that he is dying. Because then if he's dying, he can stop thinking, oh no, I I still have years. I'm gonna take on a mistress, I'm gonna live for pleasure, I'm gonna do all of these things. And um he's like, you can't, you know, and he he kind of skirts around it, but then he finally makes him face that you're dying. And Big Daddy wants Brick to face, you have a beautiful wife, you don't want to touch her. Something's wrong. What happened? And he he forces the issue, even throwing the crutch away, forcing him down the stairs, confronting him, even blocking his way in the driveway. And same with the mom. The mom, everyone knows that he's dying, he's unhealthy, it's bad. The doctor tells a lie, everyone's you know feeding themselves this lie like he is, but they all know. And it's it it can all stay under the surface as long as we all agree, agree to the lie, but it's just bringing more and more conflict. So finally, when they say, All right, Big Daddy is dying, and this is what we truly want, all of the intentions are revealed. And once everyone knows, okay, now I can deal with the what the issue is. Everyone just wants to be loved, but they want to be loved with everything put out there. That, you know, yes, she had this lapse in in judgment, and she was in her attempt to be loved, and her, or I wouldn't say attempt in her desperation to be loved, she did something desperate, and that was to go and and visit, you know, Brick's best friend and to sleep with him, right? To to make him jealous, um, to ruin the relationship between Skipper and and Brick so that she could gain her husband back, but she she the opposite happened, right? She didn't go through with it, or so she claims. Uh Tennessee Williams doesn't really give us what the definitive answer is. We kind of have to decide for ourselves to believe Maggie or not.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. I believe her.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm sure you do.

SPEAKER_01:

So do I.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um, and um, and then also Brick having to face that. Uh, when when his best friend Skipper, who he admired greatly, who kind of took the place of a father figure in his life, um, when Brick confessed to sleeping with Maggie, which again we don't know if it's true or not, he was unable to face his feelings. So he just hangs up the phone and he doesn't answer it again when he calls back, and then until he hears about um Skipper unaliving himself, right? Throwing himself out of the window. Um, and and he's carrying that, but he doesn't say it until Big Daddy forces it out of him. And even Big Daddy now is also confessing he never felt love from his father, but he's tried to love. But then Brick says, We've never felt love by you. And then even you've never shown real love to mom. And it all kind of starts to reveal that we all are after the same thing. And that's just for you to be honest with me, for me to be honest with you, will you still love me when you realize I've made a mess of my life? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Can we talk about addiction? I feel like so much of this story is about addiction. We see it clearly in Brick's character, right? Like I said, he's literally drinking the entire three first 75% of the film, you know, it seems. Um What does the family do? I think in an addictive way, instead of being honest, instead of really showing love, uh they buy each other things, right? They mask things with the the trips, the that basement they have at this big, huge southern plantation home filled with statues and paintings and art. You know, in other words, the picture being painted is all the toys, the clothes, the the things, right? They were trying to buy each other, uh, I think, in an addictive way to mask no love, right? To mask the feeling of n not having love. And in Brick's case, he does the actual substance abuse, right, with the alcohol. And I think they even say in the film that he's an alcoholic, right? He confronts it, he knows it, right? Let's talk about life, right? In real life, why do we do this? Why do we tend to go to the material things? Why do we tend to go to the even distracting ourselves to death with TV or you know, frivolous books? And you know, why do we do this instead of actually taking love right in our hands as we it's all right before us, right? Anyone care to to answer that? I know it's a tough question.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'll I can start and then I'll I'll let you think about it. But I think because love it it's it's challenging. Um you have to face the the reality of your own ugliness.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I think I've always loved this film because it it's the little picture into what goes on in a home when the truth isn't said, right? Because they've lived their whole life believing a lie or telling a lie, and it's gotten them to this place where now death is at the doorstep, and what are we gonna do about it? Right? And Maggie and Brick, their marriage is filled with lies. He doesn't want to face the truth of what happened. Maggie maybe is holding a little bit of the truth in herself, right? Of not telling the whole picture of what happened. And I think the character of Skipper is interesting because he's not shown in the film at all, and yet he's such a huge part in everyone's relationship. This whole thing about Skipper, who is Skipper, what really happened? And I love how he that whole flashback is built completely through dialogue and memory. There is no flashback, there's no flashback, it's just them talking it out and forcing each other and not letting each other out of the room, and you're gonna tell me the truth right now. And I think that was the beauty of like that. Tell me the truth. And the truth came out to be something that they ha they didn't even realize. Like, I I didn't think that was the lie, but I guess that was the lie. Sure. Um and I just I think it's just a beautiful film about what happens when the truth does come out.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

What does that love look like? It may not have been what we expected, but it was something that I think grew them closer as a family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

All the relationships are reconciled in the end.

SPEAKER_04:

They were reconciled and yet they were fractured. It was not something, and I think that's what love is, right?

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's it wasn't it didn't become perfect. It wasn't made perfect in the end. But there is that beautiful, right? We talked about this a little bit that the father, big Big Daddy, did not feel love or didn't think he was left anything from his father, right? But we learned from Brick that he in fact was deeply loved by his father, right? And I think that the Big Daddy came to find that out in the end. You guys pointed out something really beautiful that I didn't even notice. He's was kind of endearingly working on his father's hat, right? As Lee was talking about his father and who always wanted his son by his side. You know, what a beautiful thing that is. And that's what Brick wanted, right? We talked about this. Like Brick wanted his father to want him there at all times as well, but he didn't. His father instead was you know, the things, evidently, the materialism. We don't have a lot of time um left over, but this redemption we talk about, right? This can we talk it certainly about uh Maggie and Brick? How does does that come? Where do we see the redemption there? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I think the redemption came when they were willing to speak on the truth. Whatever it was, Maggie was able to tell the whole story of what happened between her and Skipper. And like Alfonso said, Maggie's motivation for sleeping with Skipper was to fracture that relationship. And she says that she realized right before you know the act was about to be committed that maybe I would lose brick forever. Um she she withdraws and she leaves, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

But I and and is ultimately faithful, m maybe, hopefully.

SPEAKER_04:

So she says. And so we believe. But I think in her, you know, warped sense of what love is, she thought this is me fighting for my marriage. Right, which thankfully she ultimately came to realize that that's not really love, right? That was brokenness. But I think what was beautiful was that her staying on that hot tin roof was that my husband is not giving a hundred percent or fifty percent, as you said before, like it's fifty-fifty. At that time, Brick was giving nothing. So Maggie was like, you know what? It's up to me to hold on to this roof and stay as long as I can and give of myself and be humiliated. She gives a line, right? It's like, I'm willing to be a fool for you, and that's what love is, right? Christ came and gave himself and loved us while we were still sinners and you know, face the ultimate humiliation of the cross, but he did that because of his love for us, and I recognize that in Maggie of like she was willing to face and do all the hard things because of her love for her husband and her ultimate hope that he would reciprocate in some way.

SPEAKER_00:

I think of the reconciliation in this film is like the surgical removal of a tumor. Um lies, deception, um, conflict, uh, and you know, something this traumatic in a in a relationship can be like a cancerous tumor that is it's it's showing uh above the surface, but it's underneath. And unfortunately, you have to cut the skin open to extract the tumor that's inside to keep it from spreading everywhere else, and then you have to now bind the skin together and wait for it to heal, yeah, right. And that's where the movie leaves you. The movie leaves you with we finally cut the skin open, we've found the tumor, now we're gonna remove it, and it leaves you kind of with the stitching, not fully healed, not fully reconciled, still very much broken, but at least we've got we've exposed what was the cancer that was destroying this family and those individual marriages, right? And it takes time. People maybe are sometimes too impatient with the process of reconciliation, in that we think that once the truth is exposed, now we can forgive and forget and move on. But the reality is we're organic material, and even uh a wound at cut takes time for the skin to repair, it takes time for it to rebond and become one skin again. Uh, and then if there's still a scar, right? So there's always the memory of it. Um, but the memory of it is there so that we can know whatever it is that causes injury, let's not do that. Again, right? Um, and so that's how it is with reconciling in relationships, right? You have to at first in by you know telling the truth of whatever it is that's that's causing that, or or at least uh bringing it out there, whatever is the center of that conflict. Let's just do the initial cut, let's cut this open and and expose what's inside and and get it all out, right? Like a pimple, just pop it and squeeze out all the nastiness. That's the truth, right? Yep, yep. And it's gonna be ugly, it's gonna be nasty, no one's gonna like it, right? But it's necessary for the actual healing to begin. And that process of of coming back together, it's a slow process, but that's healing. Yeah, that's healing because you got rid of something that if left unattended underneath, like an infection or like cancer, it spreads to the rest of the body and decays it from the inside. And in that movie, it's multiple relationships. Um, and in the end, it shows the anatomy of reconciliation. Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01:

I I'll just pull this in really quick because I thought it was poignant, although I don't think it was part of the story of the play in terms of the purposed event. But it was after they were out in the rain when Brick was trying to get away. He was trying to leave, right? And as you said, Big Daddy doesn't even let him leave, but they're in the pouring rain, they're soaking wet, like a baptism, if you will. And after that moment, because of their they've started to pull that tumor out, right? There's healing that comes from truth. And I think that we saw the first touch of that is that he's finally, for the first time in the film, sober. He's sober and he's did he doesn't want to drink anymore. And then we see the beautiful ending scene, which is no more lies, no more deception, no more mendacity, no more mendacity, right? And Maggie and Brick come together, and you can see it with the hope of having a family, maybe. Um, something that they forego for it seems like for the past three years. So really, really beautiful image. And as it was filmed in the 50s, 1958. It's I love how they do it. It's just kind of this fade to black. Um the end. The end, right? But yet it's so much more powerful for that. So I want to thank you guys for it was your idea to for us to watch this film. So glad we did. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Um and so, yeah. So before we end here, quickly, Mari, is there anything you wanted to add to the conversation? Any thoughts on this?

SPEAKER_03:

Nothing at all.

SPEAKER_01:

Marty was working on a school project. Yeah. So he didn't really get to see the film.

SPEAKER_03:

I I was there, but I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_04:

He just appreciated Paul Newman's blue eyes.

SPEAKER_03:

I was exactly that's the only time I looked up, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Look at that. You made it to the end. Thank you so much. I hope this was an edifying conversation. Let us know your thoughts down below. Please, if you haven't already, please subscribe. Give us a like uh if if you enjoyed this content. And if you didn't, let us know why down in the comments. God bless you, and we will see you next time. Bye bye.