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Think Like The Church: Phronema Explained | Learning to See as Christ Sees | Guest Deacon Anthony
Learning to See as Christ Sees: Phronema, Sacrament, and the Healing of the Whole Person
When friends tear open a roof to lower a paralytic, Jesus forgives because of their faith—and the room’s understanding of God, sin, and healing is turned inside out (Mark 2). What if the Christian life is, at its core, learning to see as Christ sees?
In this conversation, Deacon Anthony (St. Anthony the Great Orthodox Church, San Diego) joins us to unpack the Orthodox phronema—the Church’s way of seeing and living—which is not just ideas on a page but a formation of the heart through Scripture, sacrament, repentance, and community.
What we explore
- What is “phronema”?
More than a “mindset,” it’s a ecclesial way of perceiving: how Christians notice, judge, and love. It’s shaped by the Church’s worship, her Scriptures in their liturgical home, and a life together that actually heals. - Body and soul—no split life:
Christianity is incarnational. God meets us through tangible signs—mud on eyes (John 9), bread and wine, water and oil—so grace reaches the whole person. - Confession as diagnosis, not humiliation:
We don’t “check a box” for breaking rules; we name the illness so the Great Physician can heal its root. The priest’s role is merciful and confidential; accountability is real, not shaming. - Repentance (metanoia):
A change of mind and course—cleansing the inside of the cup—that frees us from self-deception and pride. Orthodoxy invites us to tell the truth about ourselves and to begin again. - The Eucharist as mystery (not mere symbol):
Communion is an encounter with the living Christ that binds wounded people into one Body—the Church as a hospital for the soul. - From the apostles to the saints:
How the same mind of Christ echoes across centuries and cultures—Saints Macarius, Paisios, and modern elders—so different in personality, yet recognizably one in humility, mercy, and love. - Heaven and hell begin now:
Entitlement, isolation, and self-invention taste like hell—a life disconnected from reality. Humility, communion, and thanksgiving taste like heaven—alignment with the Truth who is Christ. - Countering today’s scripts:
Why “live for today” and “my truth” leave us lonely and unstable—and how the Church’s life offers a steadier identity rooted in Christ and community.
Practical takeaways
- Accountability with love: spiritual fathers, godparents, spouses, and friends who won’t let us settle for less than the truth.
- Guarding your tongue: how community and confession help us master reactions before they harm.
- Role models that last: why our children need saints more than celebrities—and how holy lives reawaken desire for God.
- Unity without centralization: the Church’s phronema holds people together even across languages and jurisdictions because Christ is the center.
- A different question: not “What’s the least I must do?” but “How can I give more of myself to the One who gave all?”
Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdh
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Please leave a comment with your thoughts!
You're something of my side.
SPEAKER_07:I never seen it. For their faith. This is an intercession. For their faith, I will forgive him. His sins are forgiven.
SPEAKER_00:That can be more dangerous than saying, oh, I want to live forever. Because it's like the people who live forever at least have some some sense of futurity. Right? It's like there's some sense of, oh, I I want to get better. I wanna I you know, maybe even I want to repent.
SPEAKER_07:Process of repentance because it's like you're self-centered, and then you have to start denying who you are and denying what you want and denying everything. It's very, very, very, very painful. Right, it is. Very painful. That's why you're able to see it. If you see someone like I just feel it. I know he's a liar. You are a liar. Welcome to the club. Join us. That makes me really reticent not gonna call anybody anything. Not even to call him. Yeah. When you think that someone is something, know that the only reason you were able to detect it is because you are an expert in it.
SPEAKER_02:Jeremy Jeremiah here. What is humanity? It is a huge question. It's a question that Christianity, of course, provides an answer for. We are very blessed. We have Deacon Anthony joining us from St. Anthony, the Great Orthodox Church in San Diego, California. He has a wealth of knowledge, as I'm sure you can imagine. And it's just a wonderful conversation. We hope that you enjoy it. Don't forget to send us those comments down below. Let us know if you like the content. Um if you're interested in seeing the entire uncut conversation. It's over right now, I think over an hour and 15 minutes or so at our Patreon right now. So please consider checking that out after you watch this episode. We will see you at the end. Enjoy. Um has for a long time wanted to get you in that chair.
SPEAKER_07:Thank you. And sorry for the delay I made by the same thing. Oh, it's okay. Forgive me.
SPEAKER_02:Um, we're joined by some others as well. Um, and I'm gonna let them introduce themselves. We got Mario Andrew back there.
SPEAKER_01:Hi, hi. I'm part of the Cloud of Witnesses team. I'm also a business student. I'm very excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. Uh, my name is John, uh, and I'm a grad student, and um, I was asked to be here. So this is my first time on Cloud of Witnesses. I'm very happy to be here.
SPEAKER_02:That's very exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it makes two of us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. So it is, it's a very special night.
SPEAKER_07:But when Christ came, he did not just come to die on the cross or just to be born or just to be uh resurrected or just to be uh the last supper, or or he came to heal us, he came to give us a life. And in in Saint Paul, you will see he came to give us phonema. This is uh a Greek word that sometimes is it's translated a mindset. Uh uh, it's it's not uh it's a bigger than mindset, it's it's very it's like uh it's uh your whole you, like you see how you see things, it's like the glasses that you put on and how you see things. Like for example, we see this beautifully, like in in one of uh Christ, you when one time he was uh uh like sitting and talking to the people, and then you find four people digging up the roof and bringing uh the crippled down and then ask for healing. And I I wonder if I was in the church, for example, uh my turn to do homory, and then the church was full, and then I broke someone, John came, and he broke the window. Literally, he broke the window.
SPEAKER_02:As I say, this doesn't sound too far-fetched, actually.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, he he and his three friends carrying this guy and say, uh, did you know Anthony pray for him or put holy unction? I would look like what's happening? Like, why you can't just wait half an hour? Like, why are you disrespecting not only me but all the people who are like listening to what we're saying? Don't you have respect? That that will be my my reaction. But then we say our Lord did not do that. He he he looked at and say, You are faithful, you love your friend that you did not even wait a second because this is how much important for us. And for that, for faith, not for his faith. For their faith. This is intercession for their faith, I will forgive him. His sins are forgiven. And and then everyone was like, What the heck? Like, who is he to forgive sin? Because it's only God, and then he you know the story. He he forgave he told him to get up and walk and carry your bed, and and he did. That's beautiful, but you see the phonema of me and the pharaonima of them. And and this is what he's inviting us to have. He's inviting us to have his phonema, his mindset. The phonema that will make us look for the best in the other, not for the worst in the other. God, when he created us, he gave us tools, he gave us fear, he gave us hate, he gave us uh judgmental, to judge, he gave us a lot of emotions. But those emotions to discover who you are, to judge yourself, to be f scared that you will stay away from him. To to hate your sin or or be you being stay away. And those tools, instead of us having to work on us to discover and go deeper on who we are, which is very painful, we use it to go and hate other people and judge other people. And those talents we will be accounted for. Those things that God gave us will be for example, He gave us to love and love not to go and love our bodies and do a lot of bad things and call it passions. Oh, I love and do horrendous things that what we hear now. No, love God from all your heart and love your neighbor thy yourself.
SPEAKER_01:So, how how do we get the the phronima? How how is it that you obtain that? Because I know it gives you a big thing.
SPEAKER_07:And that's that's beautifully questioned, by the way. You you get it through the church because it's not a one and this is the thing. He stayed with the disciple for three, three and a half years, and he taught them that. And after he resurrected, he kept teaching them. And you see, this Peter changed completely, like from the Peter that that he was like rough and tough and in denial, and like all these things that uh no, no way they'll kill you, and like a lot of stories with Peter. And then you will find them Peter who carried his cross and went to die in Rome. And you will see that with John. I mean, he live he did not uh get martyred, one of but but you'll see his witnesses and how he matured with Andrew, with all of them. And and those apostles, those disciples, uh is what gave the pharaonima and taught their bishops, yeah, and the seventy, and the seventy taught the the others. And the idea of us I mean it's a it's if you can think of it, this is the Orthodox Church. It's the pharaonima, the mindset of a Christ, the idea that those apostles told their disciples how Christ lived and they imprinted it in their heart and the grace of the Holy Spirit reveals from us. It's a beautiful, it's an amazing invitation for all of us because in generation after generation we see the same things that uh Saint Clement did, Saint Paisius did, even though they're two thousand years apart, even though Saint Paisius finished sixth grade, but we see the same phonema, the same mindset, which by the way the Catholic like get like what's happening? You have no center bishop, no pope, and everyone is random. You take like different languages and you and you fight with each other like Antiochian with Jerusalem, Russia with Ukraine, on dysfunctional. And then you are still in unity? How? How do you do that? And there is no answer. That system was put by Christ, and the only thing we do, even we're following it, by the way, we don't know what we're doing. It is his processes, his methods, and it is found in the church. Like we're like, and then when you study now and you know, like you understand psychology, you see how deep this is into the soul. It was not by so done by someone who does not understand about a human nature, it was done and said by someone who knows exactly what is to be human and what is we need. Because it's so simple. Like, for example, if we the uh as all humans, regardless where we live or what language we speak, we all look into uh uh like specific things, like all human, this is universal truth, all humans wants to be loved and loved everyone. It's not a coincidence, someone put that in us, all humans wants to seek and find the truth, and someone we seek outside of us, someone sometimes we just deny it and like try to push it. All of us want to live forever, for example, and this is crazy. But if we go to just to hold the idea of to love, and then there is a God that comes and say God is love, what do you think will happen? You will love that God. And even though in in in logical sense, who will love to love God like there is no like and that's why Christianity was was spread. Christianity, if if if if Christianity had no mystery, for example, in the first century, it will never be spreading to everyone, because the Gentiles, the Romans and the Greek was waiting for a mystical God, interesting, a God that takes the physical reality and the spiritual and combine it together. So, and that's why the mystery. So if if uh if let's say one of the group of Christians went back in time to the first century, and they said that the bread and body is just symbolic, it means nothing, no one will be Christian, no one will follow them. And this is reality, by the way, this is history. You can go and study. So it's for Christianity to be able to work, it had to deal with that aspect.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we're seeing it right before our eyes, right? Because there are certain Christian groups here in America today that have done exactly that. They've taken the Eucharist and they've made it just a symbol, and those bodies, even within a couple hundred years, they're falling apart.
SPEAKER_07:They're breaking up, they're breaking up, they're bifurcating because their psychology or their their phronema is not built on the phronema that Christ designed and meant.
SPEAKER_02:Amen. I want to ask a question. They can forgive me. Yeah. And John, I'll put you on the spot. We've been talking about the phronema of the church. If you had to, what's the phronema of the world? What's the thronoma of the culture that we live in? What what's the thronoma that maybe is most contrary that you're experiencing every single day?
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. That's a good question. You know, um, in I'm taking a classics class right now, and we just read part of um uh Lucretius's On the Nature of Things, and he was a Roman um philosopher. And I think a lot of what he says there is the phronema of today, where essentially nothing matters beyond your death, right? Nothing matters. Death is a sweet sleep, right? You shouldn't worry about anything beyond your death. Just live uh, you know, to enjoy. You know, don't, you know, he did say he was he was actually um, you know, he was an Epicurean, so he he was similar to the Stoics. He's like, don't overdo it, but it's okay. And and then there's this part where he's um he he kind of takes on the persona of mother nature, and some mother nature um speaking right in the text, right? And she's castigating an old person and saying, Why are you so scared of death, right? Why are you remembering death so much, right? The point is to live. You didn't live, right? You didn't enjoy, you know. Um, I think that's the front of today. It's like um live the moment. Live live the moment. And I think, you know, in some ways, you know, that can be more dangerous than saying, Oh, I want to live forever. Because it's like the people who live forever at least have some some sense of uh futurity, right? It's like there's some sense of, oh, I I want to get better. I want to, I, you know, maybe even I want to repent, but maybe even I want to cure my ailments, right? But the the live for today, right, is just it's it's uh it's that kind of disappearing into the ether, you know. It's it's it's similar to to certain religions, right?
SPEAKER_02:Um it's so short-sighted.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And because it's so short-sighted, there's no real consequences, is what I'm hearing you say. Because, like you said, if death is just that sweet sleep, yeah, well, it doesn't matter really then.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and and um, you know, there's also the sense, I mean, I know a lot of people will fixate on the really extreme stuff. Um, but I think in some ways, the extreme stuff, you know, um, God allows it to happen because it actually, you know, puts the most radical aspects of that, of that kind of materialistic thought into the spotlight and makes people see it and go, wow, I don't want to be like that. Right. So thank God for that, right? Thank God for everything. But I think the the most dangerous one is the oh, it's okay, right? It's okay. Um, we have so many saints warning against that mentality and that attitude. Um, and so many saints warning against the complacency of uh not remembering your death. Right. Um, because you know, there's a lot of people in my life now who are having physical struggles and people's parents and you know, um, people in my family, and it's just like you don't know when it's your time, right? So that's why, right? You know, repent, repent now, right? I mean, you know, not today is the day of salvation. I'm not gonna right. Today is a day of salvation, right? It's not, you know, some like fire and brimstone type thing, but but it is serious, it's very serious. Um, so that to me, that's that's you know, I read that text literally this, you know, this last week, and I said, wow, that's that sounds a lot like you know, live, laugh, love kind of thing. So YOLO. Yeah, YOLO, right? Um, so yeah, that's my that's my two cents. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:So repentance is matanya in Greek, which means change of the course. And that's the recipe that also putting by Christ in in the mindset of the church. And we do repent not because we broke a legal rule, but because we want to see why we are doing it and check the source. It's like when Christ said, Uh, don't worry about what's outside the cup, clean inside. This is the this is the where it comes from. And in the in the church, we see uh it's not about the lying part or about breaking the rule part, it's about why did you do that, my son? And that's you will hear it in the confession. What was the emotion? What was the things that you thought of? What what why this led you into this? So it becomes not about breaking the rule part, it's about what is in your mind need to be changed to see things in how it should be. And hell is is there. Hell is when we can live it now and we can live heaven now. When we don't recognize who we are, we literally become disconnected of reality. And once we become disconnected of reality, nothing will make sense. Everything we feel it depends, of course. Like for example, you you see a lot of entitled kids. Whatever you do to them, they will never be satisfied. Any parent cannot do anything to satisfy them. And this is actually very sad because they can have everything that is supposed to make them happy, and they're not happy. They're void because they feel they're entitled and they should get more. And that is literally what's hell. I I think we're the beginning of hell.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, yeah, it's the disconnect of reality. 100%. And and how better, I think that exactly describes our modern world they've exactly right. People are destroying their bodies to change who they are because they're so uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_07:Because they are looking for the truth, and they think they find the truth, but what it does, it kick push them away more. Right. Everyone is looking to find his identity.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that's where like I hear this a lot in college campuses. I'm sure John, you hear this all the time. This is my live out your truth. This is my truth.
SPEAKER_07:You know, yes, it become their truth, and you know, I I really wish that works. I I mean it, but it's simply it does not, and that's why they grow up and they see it's not, and then bad things happen. They we uh we are created as humans to be in connection, and this is also part of what a humanity. The cross, you will find it's not just the relationship between God and us, like like horizontal, uh it's also vertical, where we are humans meeting together. So it's this and this. There is us between us and God, and us with other humans.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's the big stark difference between like other types of Christianity and orthodoxy, is we're so community heavy, 100%. Like I talk to John every day, you know, and I know at the end of the day, very important.
SPEAKER_07:And that's what we say. You cannot be saved by yourself, you have to be part of community. You have to be, because and again, this is in the system, like it it's it's like designed for us, yeah, because God allow me to marry, not to have pledgers. There is that, and there is that your wife is literally who's telling you, no, you're lying to yourself, you're not this blah blah blah, you're this blah blah blah. Yeah, and the husband is to the wife, and both of them, the community will tell them. So, what happened? You become a part of the community, and then you have your spiritual father. So you see how, and then you have your godmother and godfather, so you have a full of like people who will help you. So, in in other faiths, and you're on your own. I I I have a lot of friends that they go to a church and then they don't agree with the people on terra, they move to the next one. It's it's the American way, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, yeah, yeah, it's you don't have it then, find somewhere that has it the way you want it.
SPEAKER_07:Exactly, it's shopping for us. No, that does not work. Yeah, you have, and this is the the hilarious part that actually heaven or or us to be happy is we have to go through that misery. Like we have to go into the pain of me, uh, like like, for example, uh long time ago, I have is my brother, not my brother, like very close friend, like a brother, and he's like he's very, very, very selfish. And I always looked at him, he's the most selfish human being. And one time we were talking with each other, and he said, You know, you need to change who you are, you're very selfish. And I looked, I was, I got like angry. I did not show him that, and I was like so frustrated and angry, and then I go to my wife, Shamaser, and I tell her, Imagine he's telling me I'm selfish, and she's like, What?
SPEAKER_03:What's going on with that? You're supposed to be on my side, yeah. Yeah, and then like I was like, I mean, like, like, let's think of it.
SPEAKER_07:And I saw it, I never seen it, and then I I start I told her, then then start to help me. And then I it it it's a process of repentance because it's like you're self-centered, and then you have to start denying who you are and denying what you want, and denying everything. It's very, very, very, very painful, right? It is very painful, seriously. Yeah, but without him, I would never become a better person. Without hair, I will never. So instead of me drawing out of the community, listen because they know you more than you know yourself, right? And this is what we hate to hear most of the time. And by the way, just spoiler alert only selfish people will detect selfish people. If you're not selfish, you will not know that the other person is selfish. And what I mean by that, and this is something that God gave us. If you see if you see someone and you say, Oh my god, this guy is manipulative, I know that. Then you are you're manipulative, you're an expert. That's why you were able to detect it. I don't I don't want to burst your bobber. That's why you were able to see it. If you see someone like I just feel it, I know he's a liar. You are a liar. Welcome to the club, join us. That makes me really reticent now to call anybody anything. Not even to call him. Yeah, when you think that someone is something, know that the only reason you were able to detect it is because you are an expert in it. Do you get it? Like, this is important. I mean, my wife is not listening to this podcast. So if you say, I hate this dude, he's very prideful. Guess what? John is a club. Amen.
SPEAKER_02:There's a book right behind John, and it's there. It's Being as Communion. Yeah, you see that, but it's a wonderful book, and it is on exactly what you were just describing, Deacon Anthony, which is, and and you started by saying, John, we are not saved on an island, right? God himself in the Trinity communes with himself. And so his creation also communes, like you said, we are not just physical, we're not just spiritual, we are both together. And exactly, and in that, even when we were created as man, God saw that it right, that we needed a partner, a companion.
SPEAKER_07:So he created woman and in the monasteries also the same. You are not by yourself, you're with your other brother and if you want to become alone, you have to be like you have to take a special blessing. And you even saint Joseph when he left, his spiritual father, he gave him another person to go with him. You'll find only the people alone, like the old, like it's very hard because you cannot, and it's just the special people, not everyone. So it's always in communion and in community. Amen. Amen.
SPEAKER_02:Mario, Andrew, um, we were talking a bit about you know the contrast, you know. You yourself, you're a convert to orthodoxy, um, as am I. How have you seen, um, maybe in light of the sacraments or or things that we do as Orthodox Christians that wasn't part of your faith before? Is there anything that stands out to you that's a major major part of your life in terms of getting that thronema of the church?
SPEAKER_01:Um I would say the biggest thing is probably confession. Like having to confess my sins. Um because I would hold everything in, right? Only I know how bad I am, right? And I would kind of be like trying to hide it from God. You you think that only you and the people around you know, exactly. And so having to confess that, you know, there's a fear. There's a fear that I have to face that reality, like you were saying, Deacon Anthony. Um, but also knowing like that there's forgiveness and then there's also repentance, you know, and I don't want to, I don't want to like like I would say like it's it's heartbreaking when I haven't gone to confession and I know I'm not pro I I shouldn't properly commune because I haven't gone to confession, like our priest says, like you need to recent confession. Um, and I've sinned. It's like sometimes I've like teared up because I'm like, I can't commune, you know, with my God. And so I'm like, I don't want to sin like this again. I need Father John, when can I meet you to do confession?
SPEAKER_00:Right, because it's it's real, you know? Yeah. Well, I was gonna say too, there's the other aspect of it, which is you're, you know, of course the priests are there for you, right? And they're there to hear your confession, and that's literally their job and their calling. But also, you know, like sometimes, you know, the priests will say, Look, I've been at church since 8 a.m. and it's 7 p.m., right? And it's time for people to do confession. So be merciful on us, right? There's that aspect where I'm, you know, sometimes I'm thinking, right, you know, during my day to day, whatever, and I'm thinking, should I do this, right? Should I commit this sin? Like, I don't want to make Father John wait for another 10, 15 minutes at 9 p.m. on a Saturday. Right. So that's the community. Too. It's like it's not right. Of course, it's about the sacrament, and of course about the sacred. It's accountability. It's real accountability culture, right?
SPEAKER_07:I remember one time I really wanted to like had a huge fight with someone, and all I could think of is oh my god, I just did confess that one week ago.
SPEAKER_03:How the heck I would go for saying again, like let me be quiet, bite your tongue.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And and just to say, like, for people who are not orthodox, the priest is not going to shame you or like judge you or something. That's not what it's about. It's more about we know they're, you know, you don't want to make them suffer more than they have to, right? It's about that. But they would never say that or show that to you.
SPEAKER_07:Confession, and this is the beauty. If you are a priest and you uncover anything of anyone, your priesthood is immediately gone. And the beauty of the confession, the my the phonema of the Orthodox Church about confession is different than others. Because first it's very biblical, like, and you see the roots of confession in the Old Testament, where it's say when you are offering the uh the animals, uh, there is the uh for your sins, and then you confess what did you send to the priest. And then this was taken into the new church, the uh the new Israel, the new church, and it became part of it. And St. James said, confess your sins to each other, to the Holy Church. So, and we stopped doing that. I mean, this is one thing of us changed it a little bit, is to become a private between the priest and the parishioner. But you are most welcome. You can stand up and confess to everyone.
SPEAKER_02:You can still do it. Welcome, right? Can I you first jump to me?
SPEAKER_00:How much time do you have?
SPEAKER_07:But it's not to to uh uh oh I you broke a rule, yeah. That's the big difference. It's father. Uh I don't know why I did that. Help me, and then it's like a father-son. You remember when we talked about the father-son relationship? Like you see, when Saint Paul addressed Timotho, Timothy, my son Timothy. I give birth into Christ. He does not see him as a bishop, he sees him as his son, and he talks to him as his son. And when we become a Christian in the body of Christ, it it's it's a son, father, or a brother relationship between each other, which is beautiful, and that's what we need. Not to be lonely again. And believe in when you try it and you have a connection with your spiritual father, because Saint Paul also teaches us you can have a lot of teachers, but one spiritual father, you will have a very special relationship with him that you literally feel he's your father. And you're not substituting your relationship with your spiritual father with Christ. Because you're this and this is the humanity you're saying before you go and you say, God, open the heart of my my father, so I will hear your words through him. Because if we go and pray that some people say, Oh, I confess to God directly. If you believe that really, then why did you do sin? I mean, if you really, really, really believe that Christ is with you 24-7, if you really believe that, you will never do bad stuff. Powerful. You will never. But it's the reality that that we don't see Christ in front of us. I mean, uh if uh you know you have faith and you believe that if you put your hand on the burner, you will burn yourself. So if if Christ is a reality for you and he is on in front of your eyes at 24 hours, why you will be sinning?
SPEAKER_00:Well, the other aspect of that too is those people who we know are saints in the church, right? And we know are righteous people who didn't necessarily make that proclamation during their life because that would be very prideful, but who did they did see Christ in front of them 24-7. Yes, right? We you know uh when you're around somebody like that, you you feel it.
SPEAKER_07:You I I saw it, yeah. Like when I met uh uh Yoronda Ephraim, I did not know who he is, to be honest. I just went to the monastery to Saint Anthony, and then I saw an old man, and you feel this weird energy. Well, it's it's something you can't, it's peaceful. Sure.
SPEAKER_02:And that's that spiritual side.
SPEAKER_07:It's it's so weird. Like when I remember him, and he just gave me an apple and I ate it. Like I did not know him. I wish I kept it. And he's he's he's like 80 something, he's so short, so little, so thin, like he barely eats, I I think. And he has this beautiful, like peaceful smile because I see some people they're faking their smiles, but this one is not, it's something else I never seen in my life. Wow, and I did not understand, to be honest, what are what's happening. But then when I start reading Saint Paisius or like readings about St. Paisius, like the Guru and uh the story of uh the young man, Guru and St. Paisius, or Elder Paisius, you you see the interaction, he had the same feelings I had about what Eldar uh from was.
SPEAKER_02:Look at that. You made it to the end. Hope you enjoyed it. Don't forget, please like, subscribe, ring that bell if you want to keep up to date with all that we have coming your way. Really grateful to Deacon Anthony for spending some time with Cloud of Witnesses. Remember, right now, over at our Patreon, the entire uncut clip is available for you. Go check us out over there at Cloud of Witnesses. God bless you. We hope you were edified, and we will see you on the next one. Bye bye.