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Frankenstein Christianity (Buffet Style) vs Ancient Faith | Or A Cop and A Priest Walk Into a Cafe
“I’ve built my own faith from spare parts.”
If that sounds familiar, you’re not alone. Our guest calls it “Frankenstein Christianity”—picking what feels good, discarding what doesn’t. After years of debates and burnout, he unplugged from church, Bible studies, and Christian content altogether… until one unexpected YouTube video on Orthodox church architecture broke through. For the first time, he saw a faith that engages all five senses—where every line, light, icon, and hymn points to Christ.
Hosted by Jeremy Jeremiah, Mario Andrew, James St. Simon, and special guest Eddie G.
Then came his first Divine Liturgy: the “spiritual punch” of incense, the priest turning to ask the people’s forgiveness, and the ancient exchange—“Christ is in our midst.” “He is and ever shall be.”
He wept: “These people believe Jesus is really here. Why haven’t I been like this?”
Along the way, the so-called “problem areas” (Mary, icons, censers, traditions) snapped into focus. Torn from their purpose they can look foreign; rooted in the Incarnation, they become signposts to the living God. Orthodoxy doesn’t bend to modern preferences—it invites us into ancient, Christ-centered worship that has remained steady for centuries.
In this episode you’ll hear:
How “Frankenstein Christianity” gives way to received, embodied worship
Why faith + works in James 2 describes a living, grace-energized faith
What the Church means by theosis (2 Peter 1:4)—and why it’s not “earning” salvation
How Mary, icons, and tradition function as Incarnation theology, not add-ons
Practical first steps toward a stable rule of prayer (Scripture, Psalms, Jesus Prayer)
Who this is for:
Christians weary of performative spirituality, Protestants curious about the apostolic faith, and anyone wondering if the ancient path might be what your soul has been searching for.
Subscribe to Cloud of Witnesses for more conversations where ancient faith meets real life.
Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdh
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Please leave a comment with your thoughts!
Like it it's it's like here comes here's a priest walking in, and then right behind him's a cop. He's like, and he turns back to me and goes, uh I think this is the beginning of a joke right now.
SPEAKER_00:Like a priest and a cop walking in a Starbucks, you know. All the problematic things of in isolation, Mary, right, it becomes problematic because you're separating Mary a person from the incarnation of Christ.
SPEAKER_01:Have you ever read my like evening prayers? Where it's like, forgive me for the sins that I have done and will commit while I'm sleeping. Like, I'm like, dude, yes, yes, dude.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know what to do, but I'm sleeping.
SPEAKER_01:Children are watching people getting baptized. And from that moment, like, I'm like, dude, I don't do that. Stop. You know, like, stop. So I'm like, man, okay, that's powerful.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for being here right now. Please like, subscribe, click that bell if you want to be up to date on all the new content we have coming your way. We got a great video planned for you. We hope to see you at the end. If you want more, we have the entire uncut, unedited video over at our Patreon available right now. I want to make a very, very quick point because I sometimes get asked, Cloud of Witnesses makes zero dollars. Please understand the Patreon, any funds that have ever been uh sent to Cloud of Witnesses have gone to the microphones, the cameras, the lights, the sound dampening things, our licenses for our softwares, which are all on a monthly basis. It's very costly. And it's these types of things, um, and only those types of things. No one has ever been paid ever uh in Cloud of Witnesses. Or we've got almost a three-year history now. And so we want to thank you, all of you, uh, for being here right now, for being part of the audience. You're supporting us right now, and we appreciate it. And may God bless you. Enjoy the video.
SPEAKER_01:Like it's it's like here comes, here's a priest walking in, and then right behind him is a cop, you know. He's like, and he turns back to me, he goes, uh, I think this is the beginning of a joke right now. Like a priest and a cop walking to a Starbucks, you know?
SPEAKER_02:That's so Father Nature. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And he like, I don't know him, he doesn't know me, but he like looked back and it was just so comical. He goes, I think this is the start of a joke. I'm opening the door for him. Yeah, but I mean, just that guidance right there was the beginning of what I was seeking on um on how to pray, right? Like it that was my biggest question. How do I pray? And that guidance is led me into this fervent prayer um uh in my daily life, right? And it's just not glimpses throughout the day. No, it's consistent. It's like when I'm not doing anything, uh sitting in my car, or I'm out on doing something, right? Like my mind automatically goes to the Jesus prayer, you know, something so basic is so deep, right? So shout out to Father Nathan, yeah, yeah. And then even taking it from that, you know, and getting more guidance from St. Catharines, shout out to St. Catherine's um, yeah, even getting more guidance from uh the um Father Andrew, where it's just like sitting down with him and the humility behind the prayer that these men, these these godly men are the way they speak, right? It's so humble, it's so eye-opening through their humility in teaching you this ancient tradition of prayer. Yeah, and there is a deep, profound connection to it for us that is like I said, like goes across time, like transcends time and cultures and all of that, and it is deep, and that's what I was like, I'm all in, all in.
SPEAKER_02:It reminds me of one of my favorite lines because you talk about humility, yes, and it's I who have not done anything good in my life up to this point, help me to make a beginning of good. Have you guys come across that prayer? I've read that before. Love that. I who have not done anything good in my life help me to make a beginning of good. I mean, what a and I'm like, amen. That's yeah, well, just me.
SPEAKER_01:The first time I ever read my like evening prayers where it's like, forgive me for the sins that I have done and will commit while I'm sleeping. Like, I'm like, dude, yes, yes, I don't know what I'm doing when I'm asleep either. Right? But it's that deep, right? Like, even we can laugh about it, you know, like you're asleep, what are you doing? Well, I mean, you don't, God knows, you know, like we don't know the spiritual realm on what it's happening when we're sleeping either. But like just that mentality of a prayer right before I sleep, doing the cross, and then you give your soul to Christ upon sleep, right? Like that is not something I've been taught my life and throughout my life. Right. This is new for me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it gives you a peace before you go down to into your hands, like Lord Jesus Christ, to your hands I commend my soul on my body. Yes, you know, and bless me, have mercy upon me, and save my soul. Yeah, like that you can go to sleep if you know that you're in God's hands. And maybe you're the day, the whole day, you haven't been meditating on that, but it it reminds you and give you peace, like in Psalm 4, when David is talking about how his enemies are at his gates. But because he's in God's hands, he can lie down and sleep, even though his enemies are at his gates, because God has made his enemies his footstool. So he's like, though they be against me, when you're by my side, I can lie down, put my head on my pillow and dream beautiful dreams. Right.
SPEAKER_02:And how true is that to life? Yeah, right? Or we do, we all have enemies that are all out there right now, you know, of various uh uh types and flavors, and you know, um, I love that. That is absolutely beautiful. Um, I always loved the morning prayer. Um, I thank thee that I basically did not die in my sleep. You know, again, talking about being reminded of the humility of our of our frailty, of our mortality, yeah, right? It's true. People die in their sleep all the time. We have we are not guaranteed tomorrow. And again, the prayers remind us of that. You know, I and it just reminds me that prayer in the Orthodox Church is uh you were touching on this, James, but it's instructing us, it's teaching us how to be Christians in many ways, which it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I will say when Father Andrew told me um, like the beginning process for me in my life of prayer, uh something I love that he said was have a set of prayers that you know you'll no matter what how you feel, no matter what you're going through, no matter whether you feel like praying or not, these are the prayers you know you're gonna do. Hands down, it's black and white. There's no question about it. Whether it's one prayer, whether it's just a Jesus prayer, whatever, every morning, afternoon, evening, doesn't matter. Make sure these are the prayers that you know you're gonna do. And it's that under it's that lifestyle of asceticism, right? Where it's like it's not based off your feeling, it's not based off of emotion, it's not based off of what your day is going through, what your life it looks like. It is not about you because it's not about me, it's about you, God, Almighty Creator. Yeah, right. Like when you told me that, it was a different mentality. I'm telling you, like, this has been a different world of Christianity for me. Well, I can be very argumentative. Um coming from the reformed mentality, I mean, you kind of touched on it, like when you are theologically knowledgeable, right? Um, anytime somebody says something off, like for me, it was just like I'm gonna fix that, right? And so it's this it's this spirit of argumentative, like argumentative spirit. It's this spirit of I'm gonna fix that because I know what's the scripture says, right? It's because I'm bred up. It's me, me, me, right? So I was this very confrontational, argumentative person. And um, like, God forgive me for that, because that isn't by the grace of God, is not what I want now, right? Um, I came to this point where I was just tired of arguing, and I don't want to listen to anybody, I don't want to listen to a pastor, I don't want to listen to a priest, I don't want to go to church, I don't want to read my Bible, I don't want nothing to do about anything. And so I was just in silence. Like, I don't want to watch a video, I don't want to go down YouTube.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so that was my decision at that time where I'm like, I just want to unplug from everything and everyone.
SPEAKER_00:And uh well, and if I may, yeah, I remember the moment when he called me. Like, you know, we we had a con our last kind of conversation, and it ends on a I can I can hear what you're saying, I just cannot accept it. Yes, yeah, like I almost almost like I don't want that to be true. Yes, because then if that's true, that changes everything. And so we kind of left it at I just don't see I just don't see it that way, you know? Like I just can't accept that. And then I remember he calls me and he tells me I see now what you see in the church, and I want you to talk about the sacred architecture video that what he kind of cited as this changed my perspective on like how church is a sacred place. Church is not just a building with people, everything is intentional, everything is even biblical, and that I remember the conversation clearly like there was that was your kind of like my 180 moment, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you were probably like on the other side of the phone, like, what the heck is going on, dude? I was doing this silent well.
SPEAKER_02:Let me ask you this, and as you break into that, yeah, yeah, because you had just said this, you got to this place, you're like, I don't want to argue anymore. Yeah, I'm not watching any videos, I'm unplugging. How long from that moment to the moment James just brought up?
SPEAKER_01:A couple weeks, I would say a month. Okay, maybe a month, like uh I would estimate maybe a month. Um I was just watching the office, to be quite honest. Yeah, that's so I wasn't like I was good, I was just trying to be in this place where I don't want to know about anything, I don't want to do anything, right? And uh dang YouTube, man. Well, God bless YouTube because it knew exactly what I needed. Um, this video popped up of Father Jessia Trenum doing a walkthrough of St. Andrews, and it was with Jonathan Peugeot, and um and everything in me, uh I just remember late because I I have my I my my Apple computer, right? Like my I my Mac, and I have it on my thighs because I'm laying down because my wife doesn't let me watch the big screen in my room that I purposely put it in there for, whatever. But um that's another podcast, that's another podcast.
SPEAKER_04:He knows what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_01:But uh God bless her because this happened, right? So I'm laying there, I got my AirPods in, I'm laying there, and uh I'm going through YouTube, and this video pops up, and everything in me is like, I don't want to watch this, dude. Whatever, I'll watch it. You know, I'm like, it hasn't, he's not preaching, there's no teaching, there's no nothing. Little did I know. Um, so and I'm like, oh, it's it's not it's not two hours long, like a podcast, you know, like where I'm gonna listen to everything. So I'm like, I'll watch it. Maybe I'll fall asleep during it. I don't know. So I put it on, and it immediately goes to follow Josiah Trent of just welcoming all these people to the steps of St. Andrews. And from that moment on, I'm it like it gripped me where it was this point where he started immediately talking about the icons on the doors, near the doors, and I'm like, huh. Okay, this is interesting. Like, I love that. Whatever that is, I I love that. Like, there's meaning to the moment you step foot in front, not even in the building, in front of the doors, you he's talks about it's like we want your your mind, body, and spirit to orient to God. And I'm like, I love that, right? Because how many times do we go to a church building where it's let me go grab my coffee, let me set in, you know, let me go shake some hands, wait until the service starts, right? No, this is not that. This is not about everybody that you're shaking hands with. This is about you walking to that doorway and orienting your mind, heart, and everything about you. Everything who makes you is oriented to God. So he starts talking about like this ancient, like well, he talked started talking about saints, right? And the one that in the beginning that got me was um uh Saint Ephraim, the styleite.
SPEAKER_02:I can't uh Saint Simeon the style.
SPEAKER_01:Is he the one that's on the pillar? And that like he's up there just praying, right? So he has I think a rock from that that pillar uh on the other side of the world, right? Um, but he's starting to talking about this saint, and that's like what I'm like, whoa, like that's cool. Like there's history here now, and I'm a history guy, so like not only is there this connection spiritually to God, but now there's like these physical artifacts here, and I'm like, that's pretty cool, you know. So, like little by little, you know, like the dominoes are falling, and then he go, and then like before he even goes into the church, he goes, We're not even gonna go in these main doors here, we're gonna go to the back way to the baptismal doors. And I'm like, What the heck? They got baptismal doors? Like, what is that? And so he's the video pans over to the baptismal doors, and he's all these people are standing around the the tub, you know, the baptism tub, and he talks starts talking about like it's shaped in I think in the shape of a a uh X because um who's the disciple that was St. Andrew Mario's patron saint. Shout out, right? Right. So he starts explaining all that, and I'm like, that's that's even cooler now, you know. And then he like looks up and there's this spiral staircase that goes to the roof that overlooks where people would be getting baptized, and it pans to this, like these shots of the past where they were doing baptisms, and there's all these kids on these stairs, and he goes, This is what we like, he starts explaining how much he loves that because he's like, the children are watching people getting baptized, and from that moment, like I'm like, Oh, dude, I know what you're doing, God. Stop, you know, like stop. So I'm like, man, that isn't okay, that's powerful. And then he goes up to like the bells, and there's meaning in the bells, and I'm like, every single inch of this place, there's some sort of meaning to the T, right? And he gets deeper and deeper. We're we're like uh Father Josiah is like standing now, they move all the way to like the altar area, right? And he like has Jonathan Peugeot start talking, and he does an elaborate, like beautiful explanation about how if you were to uh take like a uh um if you were to fly a helicopter and you would look on top of the church, you would see a cross, and then the crosses on each uh peak, right? Um, what like corners, I guess you would call them, and then uh then you would like uh go into the church and then you would see what those crosses are making it, right? And then it would be a cross to another cross to another cross. And the idea is is that God in heaven is looking up down upon his church, which is in the shape of a cross, giving all glory to Christ, right? And then inside the church is the cross leading to another cross on the altar, which is in the shape of a cross, to multiple little crosses of all the little things on the table in the altar, all the way down to your heart, where the cross inevitably should be living. And the moment he starts explaining all that, uh I was shooketh. It's all about Jesus, it's all about Christ, all about Christ, all about Jesus, dude. And my mind was blown because at that moment it clicked. I was like, I see what this freaking guy was saying now, dude. What the heck? Right? Like, it is not uh any about anything else other than God, yeah. That's it, yep, and even down to the service, and then what that was, dude. I yes. So here I am laying in my bed watching this video, and I'm teared up, dude. Like, and they're not even teaching or preaching or anything, right? And the moment that he starts talking about Mary on why the Panagia is painted or whatever on the backdrop, the explanation of how when you look up into the dome, you see Jesus, and then you your eyes gaze downward towards the altar, and behind the altar above the altar is the Theotokos, more spacious than the heavens, more spacious than the heavens, and I'm like, Oh, that makes sense now. And and he goes, Jonathan Peugeot did it beautiful. He goes, it is this understanding where God has birthed into civilization through Mary, because it's as if God is reaching down, holding civil human humanity in his bosom and saying, I love you. Right? And this imagery that you're physically standing in, that is the connection. I was done. I was I was done. Right. And I I didn't even understand the theotokos, I don't understand like iconography, right? I didn't those are the big ticket items that usually Protestants converting to orthodoxy or you know, those are the things that are they question, but I didn't care about those things. I was like, I I get it, I want it, I want to be in it, I desire that, right? And it the imagery, like where you did a great job explaining it's not just your voice that you're singing with, it's not just like your prayers. No, it is all your five senses that are participating in this thing we call worshiping, right? I've never understood that ever in my life of Christianity, and until that moment where this little walkthrough video of a holy place was just that. I understood why this is a holy place now.
SPEAKER_02:Eddie, I gotta, that was beautiful, by the way. I gotta have you tell this story now because it's I think it's so right in line with that. The first time you came to a Vespers at St. Anthony, tell us what happened. It was liturgy, huh?
SPEAKER_01:Or was it liturgy?
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Tell us what this is great. You're making me cry. Yeah. So I remember we met Fonz and you know, James and his family. Yeah. And uh, we were standing in the front and my kids running around, and he's like, and I'm like, Well, when do we go in? You know, not knowing that they're already praying prior to the ringing of the bell, you know. And he's like, I think this is a good time to go in. So, like, you know, the doors open, so the doors are they're open the doors for us, and the priest is uh he's uh sensing the the the entrance, and like I think your daughter starts coughing, and like I'm like, oh whoa, dude, I'm like, what the heck? Like, what am I walking into? And he's like, you know, I'm like, what the heck is going on? Real punch to the nose, yeah, pungent, you know.
SPEAKER_02:But like you said, that's all five senses right there.
SPEAKER_01:Straight punch, dude. You know, I got I got spiritually punched, and you know, I'm exaggerating right now, but at the same time, like I had this reverence that I never had before from the moment that I met the gates into the church, right? Where it was this reverence where I seen people like bowing towards the sensing. And I I mean, all these questions are going through my mind, like, why are people bowing? Why are the candles right there? Why are people kissing that? Like, but it wasn't this. This is the first time ever where I wasn't like asking the question to come against it in argument. This was a very first time where I'm like, I want to know what the heck is going on. I kind of want this, you know? And that like from that moment on, I'm like, bathe me in this sense, you know, like I would just want to like sit in this like smoke. Um, yeah, and then liturgy starts, you know, and I'm like, he's doing a great job. Like, hey, this is where we're at, you know, like this is some of the songs, and I like I don't even know some of these words, and the biggest thing is I just wanted to observe, right? I just wanted to watch, which is why I love the iconography inside the church, because as I'm observing, I'm looking at stories of Christ, I'm looking at stories throughout the entire Bible. You know, I mean you see Abraham up there, you know, you see all these like giants in the Bible, and they're in the church, right? With that understanding that, yeah, they're still here, you know, like whether you want to believe it or not, like the cloud of witnesses is a real thing. And uh I know I know that now, but walking into that, just being an observer, I was loving the songs, you know. I love I loved the the the choir. I think you were singing that day.
SPEAKER_02:Despite me being in the choir, it was still really good. Shout out to St.
SPEAKER_01:Anthony's choir.
SPEAKER_02:That's right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, dude. And so uh, yeah, I would I would I'll I'll push it to this where the moment that got me was when I mean the the there's all these moments, but the craziest thing that was probably like the coolest thing was that the priest rarely looked at us and like engaged with us. He was back towards us, worshiping God Himself in preparation for everybody else to worship through communion, right? But the moment that he turns around, I don't know if he did this first or second, but there was two times where I was just breaking down. The f one of the first times or second time was he turns around and asks people for forgiveness. And I'm like, when have I ever heard a pastor during a service look upon his congregation and say, Forgive me, brothers and sisters? I mean, oh that was powerful in itself. That's usually an announcement of like a moral failure before like.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Seriously.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like I screwed up, guys. Yeah, not every Sunday where they're recognizing I'm a sinner just like you. Yes, and we are all in need of forgiveness. And before I I you know start to handle the body and the blood of Christ, I must confess my own sins before you and you know, kind of setting the example for all of us to have a practice of confession and repentance.
SPEAKER_01:I'm telling you, when he did that and he turned around and he's like, forgive me, brothers and sisters. I'm like, You need to forgive me, man.
SPEAKER_00:You know, like it's Christ is in our midst.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, you because I told you the story. Um, he turns around and he says, Christ is in our midst. And you know, that's a now I know that like that's a traditional stay saying, but for my first encounter to this, where he turns around and says, Christ is in our midst, and everybody, not and including kids, right? Including the children. Um, what is it? He is and ever shall be, right? He is and ever shall be. Uh like my mouth was that. I was like, my mouth dropped. I'm like, I was instantly breaking down. I'm like, what the heck, dude? Like, these everybody believes Jesus is really here. Like, why isn't like why isn't everybody like this? Why haven't I been like this? Like, why isn't my mentality that? Yeah, like there's that connection that I know that God was pulling me towards that not just uh it's a faith, it's a I believe this with my mouth, but it's mind and heart and physical meets spiritual all together. Yeah, that's what broke me.
SPEAKER_00:And when you realize that that's the essence of every component of the Orthodox Church, that all the problematic things of in isolation, Mary, right, she becomes problematic because you're separating Mary, the person, from the incarnation of Christ. Iconography. Iconography becomes a problem because you're separating the icons, the wood, the the painting, the people that are on it from the incarnation of Christ. But when you re- even the sensor, right? It's like, what's the what's the deal with the smoke? What's the deal with the, you know, um what is all of this? The bells, the whistles, the gold, the kissing, right? Um, never mind that the Bible says clearly, right? Greet each other with a holy kiss. Where is that, right? Um, but everything from the moment you walk into the church and you do the sign of the cross to the icons that point to Christ, right? The candles that are there for Christ, the crosses that are for because of Christ, right? What Christ did for us, the angels who profess Christ, the censors who that acknowledge the real presence of Christ, we are in a heavenly realm when we enter into the church. Um, it's all about Christ. So if you separate these things from him, maybe you can start to like, you know, you can see an issue with it. But that's the thing. Mary points us to Christ. What is what is what there is to venerate in Mary is Christ, right? What there is to venerate in the icon is Christ's redemption of humanity, of of the world. The church is not trying to accommodate you. When you come to the Orthodox Church, you come here to worship Christ. You know what?
SPEAKER_01:I gotta cut you off real quick. Please do. Because when you're talking about how we can go into an Orthodox church, right? And as a Protestant, if I were in my previous mentality, I would be nitpicking and separating everything, individualizing everything. But isn't that what I did with my Protestantism? Was that I picked and chose what did good for me, what I liked, and everything I didn't like, I didn't have to do. Right. Right. So I now going into the Orthodox Church for the first time, I wasn't picking and choosing. I don't like that, but so I'm gonna put that aside. No, no, no. It is overwhelming, all connected, all of it. And I saw that connection where I'm like, I Frankenstein my Christianity before. I I picked and chose what I interpreted from the Bible, and what all these other men told me what the Bible said according to them. The church isn't here to appease me, it's saying this is what we've always done, because this is what Christ has taught us. And so I'm like, I either jump on board or I'm I'm screwed, you know, because my Frankenstein Christianity, like it didn't do me, like it did me whatever God deemed it to do for my life at that time, but like now I know too much. Yeah, I can't go back.
SPEAKER_02:Look at that. You made it to the very end. Hope you enjoyed this. Isn't Eddie a blessing to go see the entire uncut, unedited video? Go to our Patreon right now. It's available. You can see the whole thing. Please, most importantly, leave a comment down below. Let us know what you think of the content. Who would you like us to talk to next? God bless you. And as always, we'll see you on the next one. Bye bye.