Cloud of Witnesses Radio

Super Masculinity: Finding Meaning in James Gunn's Superman 2025 | Hollywood Cured? | YBT019 CWP105

Cloud of Witnesses cast and crew Episode 105

Superman marks a welcome shift from the cynicism of recent superhero films, replacing the wearisome “men are bad” narrative with something timeless and uplifting—a hero who reflects God-given masculine virtues without shame or irony. At its core, this film offers more than entertainment; it offers hope rooted in moral clarity. James Gunn’s direction stands out not only for its thrilling storytelling, but also for its ability to highlight strong female characters without caving to the ideological noise that has plagued modern franchises.

Join James and Jeremiah from what sets this portrayal of women apart is the depth of the writing. Lois Lane is portrayed as courageous, intelligent, and resilient, yet her strength is coupled with humility and vulnerability—qualities that reflect a biblical understanding of strength under control. She is no caricature, but rather a fully realized character who complements rather than competes with the male lead. It's a refreshing return to the kind of storytelling that gave us enduring figures like Princess Leia and Sarah Connor—women who were strong, not in spite of femininity, but through it.

At the heart of the film is Superman’s inner conflict—his yearning to live as humble Clark Kent while carrying the enormous responsibility of his supernatural calling. This echoes the Christian journey: living as ordinary people in a fallen world, while bearing the image of a holy and eternal God. One scene in particular resonates on a spiritual level—when Superman opens his heart to his earthly father, basking in the sun’s healing rays. It mirrors the experience of confession and repentance before our Heavenly Father, where light brings both conviction and restoration. "It’s not your past that’s important,” his father says, “it’s your choices that make you who you are." A clear allusion to redemption and free will—core tenets of Christian theology.

This tension between our temporal struggles and divine purpose speaks to a deeper truth: we are created not for mediocrity, but for greatness rooted in God’s plan. Superman’s desire to save, to sacrifice, and to rise above is a reflection of the imago Dei—the image of God within us. The film’s striking visual of chasms opening in reality, caused by Lex Luthor’s moral decay, powerfully illustrates how sin fractures identity, purpose, and the created order.

Looking for a superhero film that entertains without compromising truth? Superman delivers humor, action, and soul-stirring insight. It reminds us that strength and virtue are not outdated—they’re eternal. Let us know your thoughts: Could this signal a revival of storytelling grounded in faith, family, and purpose?


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Speaker 1:

Love the look. We saw Crypto, the dog Right. I loved it the first time. I still liked it a lot the second time, but about the fifth or sixth time that dog came in and saved the day, so to speak. I was like, okay, I've seen it, yeah yeah, I've seen it enough.

Speaker 1:

James Gunn. We have talked about masculinity. We've talked about this film. Maybe almost is a hallmark of what's to come in movie making. We're just coming out of an era where what for the past 10 years, every film seemingly woke feminist agenda, everything toxic masculinity. Men are bad. You know, if there's any character who's doing well and is the leader, it's a woman. You know, almost across the board we can talk about. You know the Star Wars, newer films.

Speaker 2:

Let's not talk about Star Wars.

Speaker 1:

Let's not talk about those Rey and what happened there? Certainly what's gone on in Marvel. People call it the M She-verse. Right these types of things. This film, Superman by James Gunn, did not do that.

Speaker 2:

No, no, absolutely not. I think when it comes down to how women are treated in film, it comes down to writing, because the problem is not the female characters, it's how they're written and they're the way that they lack explanation as to why they are the way that they are, because we've had great stories with female leads and they are done in a way that's not imposing and forceful, where it seems that the character exists to make a statement against femininity and also to put down masculinity 100%. So that's the problem. But we've had, you know, sarah Connor in the Terminator series.

Speaker 2:

We've had characters that we love, like in Tomb Raider.

Speaker 1:

Princess Leia.

Speaker 2:

Princess Leia, who was the kind to take the blaster out of the boy's hands and shoot and say this is some rescue. And Jyn Erso is one of the greatest characters to come out of the sequel era of.

Speaker 1:

Star Wars.

Speaker 2:

Very different from Rey because she had motivation. She had a very strong determination through a very troubled upbringing.

Speaker 1:

She had to overcome obstacles.

Speaker 2:

She had to overcome a lot of obstacles, but we met her parents and realized why, what drives her, and it was her love for her father.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and the virtue of her family.

Speaker 2:

And even her mother's self-sacrifice and giving her the will to survive.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, can I do a contrast to that? Of course, right. So what did we get in? Ray in ray, you have your, your typical, unfortunately your mary sue.

Speaker 1:

She didn't have parents kind of you know, notoriously right and that didn't really matter, because she was perfect at everything she did right. She had never flown the millennium falcon and she was flying it like she was an ace. First time she picks up a lightsaber practically she's beating Kylo Ren, these types of things. It was unearned. Like you said, there's nothing wrong with female characters. There's nothing wrong with female leads. It's fantastic when it's done. Well, yes, what's going on now? What do we see different in this James Gunn directed Superman?

Speaker 2:

Well, lois Lane wasn't imposing. She was a very strong-willed woman. She was hard as nails, intelligent, intelligent journalist, but she was vulnerable and I think that's what happens with many of these characters they are purposefully invulnerable and they're seeking to put men down. When you take that out of the narrative and just create a strong woman who has clear motivation and vulnerability, they become believable, because we love women. We love a woman who is vulnerable, who is strong, who doesn't resist her femininity but sees her femininity as a strength, because that's something that's core to the Christian ethos is that to respect strong women.

Speaker 2:

We see Paul. He refers to Titus's mother and grandmother I'm sorry Timothy Timothy's grandmother and his mother as essential part of his spiritual development. We see the Theotokos right who is a crucial part of the incarnation of Christ and many. Sarah was included in Abraham's promise of the son. So there is a clear respect for women and their femininity and their vulnerability and their crucial role in the world. Exactly, and we see that in this movie with you know, hawkgirl comes out in it and she's very strong, very powerful.

Speaker 2:

But overall, what I love about Superman and I'm glad we moved away from Star Wars, because it hurts my heart, but Superman thankfully does not. For some reason, before it came out, about a week before it came out, everyone was talking about how woke it was going to be and I didn't catch any of that. I I didn't see a hidden woke agenda, even if I was expecting to see it. I couldn't find it, yeah, which I really enjoyed. It's just a fun film that is action-packed and it was faithful to the comic book aesthetic and tone. Sure, it was friendly, yeah, yeah, inviting it, was it? Um?

Speaker 1:

comical at times. Yeah, it didn't take itself too seriously, right, right?

Speaker 2:

Right, that that component I really enjoyed. And Superman was was a phenomenal character, right, uh who he got beat up a little bit more than I liked, uh, for telling us that he's the strongest being in the universe. We see him get beat up quite a bit.

Speaker 1:

It starts out kind of and this is not a spoiler, because it's literally in the first two minutes of the film, the first time he's been defeated while on Earth is right there, in the beginning of that film, which I think raises a really interesting question. With a great setup for a film, wait a second Something's more powerful than Superman. That's interesting. I was drawn in right away.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's something that's really challenging when writing Superman. Not a lot of people can write Superman very well. There's few comic book writers who've done it well. I think Geoff Johns is probably one of the best Superman writers in the comic book world because I'm a huge comic book fan. But what people have failed to do is write about what hurts Superman more than just kryptonite For everyone. They go to kryptonite, right, but really what James Gunn tapped into was that feeling of being an alien, of trying to fit fit in, knowing that you can't right.

Speaker 2:

What's unique about Superman is Superman is his real identity. Clark Kent is his, is his fake. I did camouflage. It's his camouflage, but that's the one that he wants to be. He wants to be the guy that gets the girl he wants to be. He wants to be the guy that gets the girl. He wants to be the reporter. He wants to be the guy from Kansas who's a humble guy, but he has the responsibility to put on the suit and save the world with a smile and protect as many people as he can, and that's a very difficult burden to carry.

Speaker 1:

It makes me think of one of my favorite passages from scripture is to whom much is given, much is expected in return. Right, and we've talked before in this studio about how complacency can be very easy. Right, going with the flow. I also think of the parable of the talents and the one who just hid it. Hid the one away. Right, it's comfortable, it's easy, but but doesn't get you anywhere.

Speaker 1:

I see here an image of we as human beings. Right, we are clark kent. Right, we're just the regular guy, and yet we're also created in the image of God. We have eternal souls that will, in one way or another, be in eternity in the presence of God, either to our utter joy and ecstasy or to our suffering. And I think that in that, I love how you put that, james Superman may want to be just the regular guy, but I think it's opposite in real life.

Speaker 1:

We want to be Superman, we want to be Aragorn, we want to be Luke Skywalker. Right, we want those things. We want to be greater and above ourselves. Why? Because we are drawn to the true reality, the ontological reality of what we are as human beings. We are creatures made by a loving, personal God, who created us for a purpose in this world and in eternity, and that is as science fiction as you'll ever get, but I love it because it's reality. Cs Lewis once said there's more magic and fantastic reality in the Christian faith than in anything the world has to offer, and I think that's what we're seeing here in some ways. Is that true?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so the concept of heroism. And what does that look like? Well, it in the case of superman, it means sacrificing his earthly wants for an ideal or, um, a heavenly virtue, right? Um, it's battling the big bad guy that nobody else can fight, and it comes at the expense of having a normal relationship, right, having a normal job. And the Christian has to do the same, in that you have to have the secular job, you have to live in the secular world and you want to have.

Speaker 2:

You know who doesn't want to be wealthy, who doesn't want to be prosperous, who doesn't want to have the finer things in life. But you are called to maybe have a family. You are called to be married right, and dedicate yourself to your spouse. You're called to be a parishioner and sacrifice on behalf of the church, to be a servant. You're called to be a parishioner and sacrifice on behalf of the church, to be a servant. You're called to be a servant, a minister, and to serve God in whatever capacity that you can. So you do have to make sacrifices for an ideal, for a higher purpose, and in many ways we are.

Speaker 2:

I think we connect a little bit more with mutants in the X-Men series because there's a lot of vitriol from the people that you're trying to save.

Speaker 2:

There's more of a feeling of being an outsider that you have to struggle with, and I think we can connect with that through Superman, because he is an outsider, he's not from this world, and we also would say we're not of this world because we have a heavenly citizenship right we hold to a citizenship that is not held to this world but of the world that is to come, and so that's a difficult thing, but that's why, also, prayer is so important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because prayer gives us the strength. That's like to me. I think of that moment when Superman is sitting and taking in the rays of the sun and it's almost painful, but it's regenerating him, it's rejuvenating him. I think of prayer that way, and fasting as well, that it rejuvenates the spirit in you. And sometimes it's painful because you know it exposes some of your wounds. It exposes some of the trauma and the challenges that you face, even some battles with demonic forces that you've had to overcome, and now you stand in the presence of a holy God and it burns sometimes, yeah, because you're all of a sudden aware of your own failures.

Speaker 1:

Sure, the light is shining on all of it. Exactly, and now it brought forth to the world. You're exposed.

Speaker 2:

To yourself.

Speaker 1:

You're exposed, and on all of it.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. It's all now brought forth to the world, you're exposed. To yourself You're exposed, but that's what allows you to then heal with genuineness, which is what the Bible calls us to in Peter right, that the genuineness of your faith may be tested Right, and that's what I love about confession, because we're not alone. We have our justice gang in the cloud of witnesses in the parish, but also in our priest.

Speaker 1:

Not unironically that scene you're describing in Superman. When he's exposed to the sun, he is visiting his family. Do you remember that Right? There's that moment of confession where he's talking with his father.

Speaker 2:

Right which.

Speaker 1:

I think is a very powerful moment, this appreciation for the role of the father. It wasn't the mother in that moment. Again, mothers play a crucial role, just as important as the father. But in film, lately, the role of the father, even in TV, for years now, the role of the father is often marginalized. Right, but I thought it was a beautiful moment. The father comes out, puts his arm around his son in a somewhat confessional moment. Right, and do you remember what the father said to Superman?

Speaker 2:

He told him that the parents give them the tools and that they make fools all by themselves. But regardless of what has happened, he couldn't be more proud of who he has become Right.

Speaker 1:

And he says it's not your past that is important, it's your choices. That you make is what makes you who. You are Right, and I thought that was also another example of a very now presentation of reality.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Right, it's not about our identities, james. It's not about our identities, james, it's not about our. Are these things important? Is that, in ethnicity, our histories, our past are these are this. Is it important? Yes, it is, but more important is tell me this day, whom will you follow? Right right, are you picking up your cross today? Right, it's your actions in the here and now that define who you are. I feel like that's a very Christian message.

Speaker 2:

It is Jesus says do not just be hearers of my word, but doers also. If you love me, obey my commands. There's no such thing as a non-practicing Christian, because to be Christian is to live like Christ 100%. So that is key. I love the visual that they provide of the father and the son sitting together In the sunlight In the sunlight, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And the son is confessing his feelings about himself and the father needs to remind him of who he is. And I feel that that's the case in confession, when we share our vulnerability, our fears, our failures, and the priest reminds us of the grace of God and to depart in joy and that reorients you into a trajectory of grace, and also to then go and continue in the work, which is exactly what happens. After that conversation, clark is reoriented back towards heroism. So he is. His failure is no longer an obstacle, or it wasn't even really a failure, but learning something about his past. It didn't shape his future anymore because he remembered he's not a product of his past. He is the present person and he has a choice to make good choices.

Speaker 1:

He's not deterministic. His past doesn't define who he has to become. He has free will. He can make separate choices. He doesn't have to follow. What we never really find out Was the message from the parents altered? Was that what they really said, which is interesting? I like when they leave things a little bit unanswered sometimes.

Speaker 2:

Evil Lex Led sometimes Right Evil.

Speaker 1:

Lex Luthor.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

I think very interestingly, I liked a lot of what James Gunn did with the character in this particular film. He's playing with the fabric of existence right.

Speaker 1:

Sure by opening up this portal and it splits reality in some ways. Right, I don't know how to describe it, but to me, I couldn't help but think about the way our modern society has, even at the core of, at the molecular level, if you will is tearing apart, is bringing a rift between people, between families, between people's understanding of who they are, even to their own body. Right, and you see this in the film, these powerful images of cities being torn apart right from these chasms as reality splitting. Do you see any of that? What do you see in that character of Lex? How do you see him portrayed in what we would say is this evil genius portrayed on film?

Speaker 2:

I thought immediately of Captain Ahab in Moby Dick. Wow, I thought immediately of Captain Ahab in Moby Dick. Oh, wow, that's somebody who was so driven by their need for revenge and hate that they were no longer thinking about the people on the ship that they were going to sacrifice. They were even unconcerned with how it was affecting everyone around him. He only thought of the whale, yes, he only thought of taking down the whale and it it took him down with with it and ultimately, that hate. If, if hate is your motivator, it will destroy you and and people around you. And yeah, and it was you and and people around you. And yeah, and it was, you know, splitting the fabric of reality. But I found him to be a bit one dimensional as a character. I think the actor did a great job and I tend to like a um being used to smallville. I don't know if you watched smallville, but michael rosenbaum was was a phenomenal lex luther, who was very complex of a character much more nuanced.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and this lex was very easy to hate and I hope that they redeemed that at some point in him, because the Lex in the comic books he kind of. He has almost a noble heart in his hate for for Superman and I prefer that because I think that it's it's a very western idea that the bad guy is just cut from a fabric of evil. Right, they're the scars of stories. Right, he was born evil. Yeah, he is just. Every intent of his is evil. But when you approach Lex Luthor from, he is a human being who has the same fears and the same anxieties and the same ability for good. There's a redeemable quality. I, for good, there's a redeemable quality.

Speaker 2:

I didn't feel there was much redeemable about this Lex. Right, I know that there are ways to write the character where he is more concerned with humanity's dependence on itself so that it's not reliant upon the protection of an alien who could potentially be a threat. If they would have leaned into that a little bit more, I think it would be a great way to hold the mirror to how humanity justifies their sometimes evil actions for a good purpose. The ends justifying the means is a very human thing that we think. I can do this thing, that will be evil, that will be bad, but it's not so bad because of what it will accomplish. Right, right, like telling a lie to save a life, you don't really get to make that call. Well, I can, I can, uh, accept that you have a noble goal to save a life, but using that motivation to justify evil, it's a very human thing, but it doesn't make the thing that you're doing not evil 100%.

Speaker 1:

We shouldn't get into it and we won't. But I think about dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Speaker 2:

Great example. I just watched Oppenheimer as well.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, Okay well, and talk about ripping the fabric of reality, opening Pandora's box.

Speaker 2:

There you go. Should we have done it Right? Let's not get into that, yeah we're talking about superman, right?

Speaker 1:

so I I find I'm I'm glad to hear you say you, you mentioned that you were a little bit dissatisfied with how they wrote uh, lex, luther, um, some of the criticism that that I've seen in regards to this film, and I think I felt it even a little bit myself. The three other characters you mentioned Hot Girl and Green Lantern Right. Mr.

Speaker 2:

Terrific.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, mr Terrific, who I thought was awesome by the way, great role.

Speaker 2:

He was the true hero of the movie.

Speaker 1:

He really was in many ways. Let's take Hot hot girl. She didn't really, to me, have any character development. No, I kind of felt like her. All she did in the film was come in, yell and fight and that's it comic relief.

Speaker 1:

Comic relief a little bit yeah, exactly right, a little bit, maybe too much so in certain parts we we saw Crypto, the dog, right. I loved it the first time. I still liked it a lot the second time, but about the fifth or sixth time that dog came in and saved the day, so to speak. I was like, okay, I've seen it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I've seen it enough?

Speaker 1:

James Gunn? What are your thoughts? What are some of your areas of the film where you think maybe it could have used a different treatment if you could have chosen that?

Speaker 2:

I think James Gunn is irreverent and sometimes that works. It worked very well for the Guardians of the Galaxy movies and Suicide Squad Sure and those are the movies that he is very comfortable with those group movies, team movies that have a lot of characters and you can see that it does. The film does a great job of keeping it light, comedic, fun and entertaining.

Speaker 1:

Like you said, not taking itself too seriously.

Speaker 2:

Yes, However, the quality suffers a bit.