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Cloud of Witnesses Radio
To Street Preach or Not? | Orthodox Christian Perspectives on Sidewalk Evangelism | YBT014 CWP066
Have you ever witnessed the raw courage it takes to stand on a street corner, sharing your deepest convictions with the world? Are we called to do so as Christians? That's the daring question pondered by our guests, Jeremiah, Priscilla (Priscillaxdestiny) and Villain Typecast John. Together, we embark on an enthralling journey, examining the bold and diverse methods of public faith declarations—from heartwarming compassion to the fiery urgency of the fire-and-brimstone preachers. They share their experiences, including the challenges they face and the criticisms they receive, even from within the Christian community. This episode isn't merely a discussion; it's a tribute to the indomitable spirit of those who articulate their beliefs, unafraid of judgment or ridicule.
Venture further into the realm of faith as we unravel the intricacies of Orthodox Christianity's approach to evangelism and its understanding of salvation. Cloud of Witness Radio panelists open up about my own spiritual pilgrimage, transitioning from Protestantism to Orthodoxy, and how it reshaped views on the essence of spreading the gospel. We delve into a heartfelt conversation about love's paramount role in evangelism, guided by Saint Paul's wisdom, and reflect on how genuine faith is more than seeking immediate conversion—it's an invitation to experience the fullness of the Church and its teachings. Engage with us in this respectful, thought-provoking exchange on the art of evangelism, where faith and love intertwine to reveal the true meaning of bearing witness.
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Thank you for journeying w/ the Saints with us!
Okay, all right, here we go, all right, and here's, let's do this, let's do um, I'll say hi, this is your cloud, this is radio, this is Jeremy. A new episode of yes, but. And then we'll go Priscilla, and then John, and then we'll jump right into it. Sound good?
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, I am not an atheist.
Speaker 1:I've never been an atheist I've never. People are too afraid to believe that they have control over their own actions. Hi, this is Jeremy. This is Cloud of Witnesses Radio with a new episode of yes, but.
Speaker 4:Hi, this is Priscilla.
Speaker 3:Hi, this is Villain Typecast John.
Speaker 1:Awesome, Priscilla. Where are you known from? Where do people find you?
Speaker 4:So I'm primarily known on TikTok at PriscillaXDestiny. You can also follow me on Instagram, and those are my two primary platforms.
Speaker 3:John, you can find me on Cloud of Witnesses podcast. On some of the episodes I'm on the Lives of the Saints and Screwtape Returns.
Speaker 1:Amen. This comes into play because we're talking about social media a little bit. Today, the topic is street preaching. It's very interesting, and this is someone that Priscilla and I know of from TikTok. He's got a pretty popular channel and let's check it out.
Speaker 2:Hey friends, here's an easy way that you can do evangelism in your own community. We call this sign evangelism, where we just take signs that we have made, we post them up in our community and stand by them. So what we have here is a sign that says deny yourself, take up your cross, follow jesus the call to follow jesus. And then we also have here our prayer station sign. This one says can we pray for you? So I'm just set up here at a at a busy intersection in our town of Shelbyville, kentucky, and getting the word out to everyone who drives by. As you can see, there's a lot of traffic. A lot of people are seeing these signs. Who knows, maybe someone will pull into the parking lot behind me and ask for prayer. That would be an opportunity for me to share the gospel with them. These are good.
Speaker 1:So we'll pause it there. I want to. We'll return to some more of his content, but that certainly sets the stage, I think, for an interesting conversation. I want to say that I've actually interacted with him on TikTok before. I want to be very clear. I do not in any way want to attack him. I believe he's very well intentioned, he's actually a very nice guy and we've always had very civil interactions, even though we don't agree whatsoever. He's a Calvinist, he's a reformed Christian, reformed Protestant, and so, even though we have great disagreements in terms of the faith, I think his heart is in the right place and I believe that he believes that he is fulfilling, you know, his his call. Kind of fascinating. What do you guys think? What's your, what's your initial thoughts on?
Speaker 4:this, so I do kind of know him. I've seen his videos, you know, through TikTok. I've never actually interacted with him through message or anything. He does seem like a really nice guy. I have seen some of his more funnier videos and overall, though, as far as the signs go, I kind of have mixed feelings about that, because I understand, like you know, you have one group like group a, the first group, who they are doing it in a very loving way, such as he, but then you have the second group who they can claim to have good intentions, but then their signs are a little bit more. You you know what is it? Fire and brimstone, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've never heard of this guy before. My initial thought about that is I don't have a whole lot of negative things to say about Protestant street preaching, just because of the fact that it takes a lot of courage to do something like that. So, just from the angle of courage versus cowardice, I actually commend people who do stuff like this. Obviously we have people who have signs that say, if you're a drunkard, if you're a fornicator, if you're this or you're that, you are all going to burn in the lake of fire.
Speaker 3:I've seen that before and some of them really do push the envelope and pretty much just inflame a whole lot of unsavory passions amongst the crowd that they're in the midst of. But overall, with the stuff that they do, even things like, oh yeah, can we, can we pray for you, can you come over here at this prayer station and can we lay hands on you and pray for you? Normally most people would think to themselves, oh, this is that's, that's just totally awkward, I would never do that. But just the courage that it takes to do stuff like that on a regular basis, I have to say I have to applaud that. Methodology might be off right, the way that they're kind of trying to get the word out there. Maybe they could.
Speaker 3:There could be some tweaking, you know, but yeah, I have honestly, as an Orthodox, even as an Orthodox Christian, I can't help but think only positive thoughts, and I can't help but think only positive thoughts, mostly positive thoughts about that.
Speaker 4:I think it's because of the way that they view what evangelism is, and what that looks like is why they go about it, the method that they do. I don't have a problem with it because, as well, like you're saying, it is very it is a very courageous act. You know you are putting your life out on the line against people that could potentially harm you, but at the same time, I do have, I do begin to have an issue when they start questioning, you know, the apostolic faiths as to why it seems like we're not going out on the streets and quote unquote by their definition evangelizing, street evangelizing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, those are great points, you guys, you know this episode. As you know, it's part of our series that we call yes, but, and this is very much one of those topics where it's like, yes, right, I have a lot of agreement with what they're doing. Yes, we are called to evangelize, you know. Yes, we should be sharing our faith with others in the world, you know. Yes, we are to sacrifice, right and and to, as you guys were saying, to to put ourselves on the line, if you will, to share our faith, et cetera. And I do too. I'm with you guys.
Speaker 1:I think it's courageous, I do, as I said in my opening remarks, I think that their intentions, generally speaking, are good and wholesome and I believe they believe that they are fulfilling the great commission in doing these things. But I do think there's a but, and I think, for me, part of the but is kind of ties to what you were saying, priscilla, what you were touching on, which is there's a difference in perspective as to what is salvation, and I I can't help but see, in the street preaching mentality, this idea that if someone will just come and pray the sinner's prayer with me, they can be saved right, kind of like if I can just get someone to come to me and, you know, tearfully give their life to God, right here, right now, on the street corner, I've won a new soul for Christ and yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I agree completely with that. I think you know I've seen personally street evangelizers. As soon as they're done, you know they talk to their audience and they're like you know, we, we, we won three souls today, three people got saved today or something. And I'm just like you don't know that, Like I don't know. I'm just yeah, it's. It has to do with their soteriology and believing that they are almost this rush of like. I have to hurry.
Speaker 3:Time is running out, you know the offer to pray for somebody, to say the Jesus, not the Jesus prayer, the sinner's prayer. They think that once you say that prayer, you're good, the slate is clean and you're set for heaven. That's the part where, yeah, I would also take issue with and I would just say, yeah. It's the part where, yeah, I would also take issue with and I would just say, yeah, it's good to sow seeds and plant seeds and put the thought of God and Christ in people's head to remind them. Yeah, okay, this is real, this is the truth. And you know, at least get people to think and consider. You know it's a slow going process. It's not just an overnight thing. Conversion is not overnight, uh for sure. But, um, I would say that, yeah, I mean, that's that's the thing. That is really what's at issue. It's not necessarily. I wouldn't, even in and of itself.
Speaker 3:I personally don't find anything wrong with putting up a sign that has a good message on it, like any, like, like a you know a little placard or whatever, like a Bible verse, you know, for somebody to kind of digest, and maybe it's there's something on it that an individual might need passing by. It might bless them tremendously to see a Bible verse. I have nothing against that, but yeah, it's like the the, the soteriology. Well, yeah, it's like the soteriology right and the soteriology that informs their method.
Speaker 4:I think also, you know, orthodox, we don't go out and flash it like they do. You know, and I don't want to call them hypocrites or Pharisees, but you know the scriptures do talk about like. Do not be like the hypocrites who wish to be seen and made public, for that is their reward. For us Orthodox Christians, it looks like we're not evangelizing in their eyes because we tend to do it on a more personal scale, behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's an interesting point. You know, I can't help but think about Orthodox processions. Right, I can't help but think about Orthodox processions. As you know, we're actually right around the corner from a very important procession that is done every year on Pascha, where we go around the entire church. Typically it's outside. In some communities they really go, they go around a large part of the town. It varies from parish to parish, but you do have this. In many ways, that is a public proclamation of our faith. Right, we're holding our icons, we're singing our songs, we have candles. You know, it's right there in their face. So it is, it's interesting, right, but that's obviously that's different, right, it feels different. It is different than what we're seeing here with these Protestant street preachers.
Speaker 1:I think that you guys said everything you said I agree with 100 percent. Going back to the soteriology, and you know as you both, I think, know many in our audience might know because I talk about it too much I'm a former Protestant, I'm a former evangelical. Before I became Calvinistic, I grew up, I went to a private Baptist school. I myself, many times I lost count, but at least I'd say five, six, seven times I walked down the aisle during an altar call. It's a Protestant thing. I talked with a prayer counselor in tears and I prayed the sinner's prayer again. And then I prayed the sinner's prayer again and again and then did it change my life, I don't know, sometimes, for a certain period of time in my life, you know.
Speaker 1:But it goes back to what you were saying, priscilla and John salvation from the Orthodox perspective is an entire transformation of your life. It's not talking about something you did on October 23rd 2012. That's not salvation from an Orthodox perspective. Salvation from an Orthodox is what am I doing today? Right, where is my heart right now? Right, am I picking up my cross? Am I willing to offer myself as a living sacrifice right now? And I think to me that's the distinction, that's the difference between us and those Protestants who are on the street corners with their big signs, with their loudspeakers proclaiming what they claim. You know what they believe is the gospel right.
Speaker 3:It's about the present state that you're in, right, that's. That's what counts. I mean, I think it was saint paul or christ who said um whatsoever. Whatever state that you're in, um, in whatever way that the lord finds you, he will judge you according to your present state in that very moment. It's not what you did five months ago, 15 years ago. God is not going to judge you for how you were yesterday, but how you are now. Are you repentant now? It's not about being repentant yesterday. Are you repentant right now? If you're not repentant right now, then your repentant state yesterday doesn't count for anything. So, yeah, that's the Orthodox view.
Speaker 1:Yeah, priscilla, if you were going to jump in, go for it, but I was going to say something after that. Did you have something you wanted to say right now?
Speaker 4:No, I mean, I would say you know, yeah, I agree with the whole. Like, repentance in the evangelical or Protestant world is very temporary. And this gets into sacramentology and the importance of the church, because, you know, are these street preachers, are they referencing them to a church? Are they, you know? Are you truly discipling them? Because, great, you have this person that you believe is now saved, but have you provided them with a Bible? Are you sending them off to a church? You know, getting them connected and you know, so that that that's. Those are just like my thoughts on that, yeah, no, it's well said.
Speaker 1:It's well said, I. I think about what James says Uh, what does he say? He says what is true religion? True religion is taking care of the widows and orphans, right, feeding the, the hungry and the poor. And I think about what christ said right, he said, when I was thirsty, did you give me something to drink? Right, did you visit me? Those things, I think it's interesting. He didn't say did you go on the street and proclaim my, them, etc.
Speaker 1:And certainly, orthodoxy, uh, does that we can talk a little bit about how the orthodox church has grown um and evangelized whole nations, uh, throughout history. But I think that you know, if our focus is our own salvation through the working out of our faith, through almsgiving, through sharing of our talents, our time, our tithe, all these things, I think I believe I'll speak for myself that God in his sovereignty, will, lord willing, use that, use my pit you know my tiny little bits of you, know what I do for his kingdom and hopefully he's able to use that to maybe, as you said, plant a seed or change someone's heart yeah, and it definitely gets into.
Speaker 4:Like you know, faith alone versus, like you know, works are necessary, because I believe that when Christ says they draw near to me with their mouth or lips, but then their hearts are far from me, I think that is literally faith. And then you have work. So they claim my name, they claim my name, they have, they say they have faith, but then their hearts because they do not feed, you know, the poor, they don't help the homeless, they, they do not close. You know, like the scripture also says, what good is it to say go out and be warm and then you do not close that person with like a blanket to stay warm? And so I think that that's very when he says they draw near to me with their mouth, that is faith, but then their hearts are from, are far from me. It's because they do not, they do they lack doing works out of love and having that action in action.
Speaker 3:Yep, yep, you can even move, move mountains, you can perform miracles. You have, you can have the strongest faith in the world to move the very sky, as saint paul said that I can do all these great things and speak the tongues of angels and perform many wonders, but if I have no love, it's nothing. So it's. It's a mirroring of the idea of faith without works is dead. Even faith that has the power to move mountains, it's not enough to save you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then there's another verse, really quickly too, that says you know, um out of faith, hope and love, which is the greatest of these? And it's, it is love.
Speaker 1:Amen. You guys, I, I, uh, you know you guys. I want to reiterate, because I'm hoping that I'll share this with and I wish, I do believe that they're doing it because they want to express their love, their Christian love, for the world. Right, they maybe even would say maybe we're just planting seeds. Right, maybe they're not walking away saying we had four saved souls today. Right, we can, let's steel man it all we want, because I think that there is a lot of good, like you were saying earlier, john, there's a lot of good in what they're doing, at least in their intentions and what they want to bring about. We can have conversations about the efficaciousness of it. Does it work? Is it effective? Ought we all to be doing it, et cetera, et cetera. Objective, ought we all to be doing it, etc. Etc. Um, right, but I, but I want to maybe say and extend, um, the idea that you know we're orthodox christians.
Speaker 1:You know me, I'm a former evangelical, former calvinist. Um, I have done street preaching, believe it or not, I've done it. I've been on the street and I've uh, had conversations with people and and been out there for that very reason. I believe that orthodoxy is the fullness of the faith and to embrace the historic, ancient practice of the christian faith is not to say that no one's called to do those types of things.
Speaker 1:We can talk about fools for Christ, saints of the church who did some things that you might say is in some ways can be compared to at least street preaching, and so there's potentially a place for that I think Orthodox Christians can have a conversation about. Is there a place for going out on the streets and talking to people openly, that type of thing? But I would, I would challenge our protestant, our evangelical, our reformed friends to realize, or to maybe to look at that orthodoxy is here, the church exists for 2 000 years and it wasn't all brought about because of street preaching, and so maybe this can open up a conversation with what the practice of the church is and how we can incorporate and bring in more former Protestants into the, into the fullness of the church, the body of Christ. I'd love to hear you guys's thoughts yeah, I absolutely.
Speaker 4:I agree with everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, there was St Gabriel, the fool for Christ of Georgia, who actually was, I think, waving a cross as he was being escorted on a motorcycle by a Soviet officer and he was saying yeah, jesus is the gospel. On the streets of Jerusalem, st Paul going around and preaching to the rabbis and the Jews and the pagan Greeks.
Speaker 1:And the Areopagus the marketplace Yep.
Speaker 3:Right. But it wasn't. They weren't going around obviously saying, yeah, I'm going to save these people right here and now. They're going to say the sinner's prayer, um, and that's it. They're going to be set for. Obviously they did not have that mentality. It was more like an invitation. It's the proclamation of the gospel, is an invitation to the body of christ, to church, to the church and, ultimately, to the kingdom our job is just to preach the gospel, but it's not our job of whether or not they accept it in that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, well said. Have you guys heard the saying? I'm not sure who said it originally, but something like we are called to preach the gospel and, if necessary, use words. I think there's an Orthodox, you know, kind of maxim in there that first and foremost, we need to live the faith, we need to live the faith in love, and that's not easy to do, and I think maybe before we go throwing stones at anybody, we need to make sure that our own house is in order. And so you know, I think, ultimately, I guess we'll have to table the conclusion. I don't know if we can conclude in this episode what street preaching ought to be or, you know, does it have a place in orthodoxy, etc. But I think it's a conversation we can continue and maybe we can open up with our Protestant brothers and sisters and see where it takes us. For sure, awesome. I'm curious just as kind of the tail end of this. We just got a couple more minutes here.
Speaker 1:I have known over the years a number of Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter-day Saints, people I went to school with, etc. I even work with someone currently who's Jehovah's Witness and, as you know, audience that they go door to door. They believe that they're called to go door to door. It's their evangelism, right? They would say the same exact thing. In fact, they have said the same thing. How come you, as an Orthodox Christian, don't go door to door? Right, priscilla, it's part of your story. You were communicating with Lds missionaries for a while who had gone door-to-door. Can you guys talk about? What's the connection here? What's, what's the distinction between this conversation and what these um, these, you know cults do on a regular basis?
Speaker 4:um, I kind of think they're just like the street preachers in the sense that they have this sense of urgency to try to convert as many people as possible. Um, because of their view, their soteriology, just the whole Western mindset is so different from the Orthodox pronima, like our way of living and our way of thinking here in the East for a business.
Speaker 3:If you look at it from more of like a bird's eye point of view, if you just zoom out, that's what it looks like. It looks kind of similar to how people advertise for I don't know, like lemonade or a cereal box. And yeah, obviously they don't intend to do that. Obviously, if you ask these people, is this a business? No, this is a way of life for me. This is, you know, the one, the, the, the true faith, and we want to spread it to the four corners of the earth. But just the methodology. I guess it's just baked into us here in the American West that it's kind of hard to break loose of that methodology, that mindset. So, yeah, it's kind of kind of like you gotta, you gotta kind of, you know, peddle it to as many people as possible, like like a business. Would a business would also do the same thing. We gotta sell it, you know, as much as possible, as many people as possible interesting.
Speaker 1:There's a famous man named hank handegraaff. He used to be called the Bible answer man. He was a Protestant for years. He actually converted to Orthodoxy. I believe, I heard yes, really awesome.
Speaker 4:And all the Protestants did not want him to keep the name. They wanted him to change his name. And then all of a sudden he became discreditable. Like James White, everybody, like all his knowledge that he had, it was just like yeah're you're.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they didn't want to pay attention to it. Right, you're exactly right, priscilla. I think that um and and we'll, we'll be closing it out right now. But one thing he used to say, cause he was part of this organization called uh, oh, what was CRI, christian research Institute, just Protestant group that would kind of combat cults and what's not. But he said, are you willing to do for the truth what the cults do for a lie? And I think it's an interesting question, right, are you willing to do for the truth what the cults do for a lie? I think that's a question that we can all ask ourselves, right, Because certainly as Orthodox Christians, we know that we are to give ourselves entirely right, all of us.
Speaker 1:What did Christ tell the rich young ruler? Sell everything you have and give it to the poor and come, follow me. Right, that's the call, and I know me personally. I fall short of that every single day. So I just want to leave my final thoughts here before we let. John and priscilla will give you the last word today. Look to the, the teachings of the church as they've been preserved for 2 000 years in holy orthodoxy. Find a parish near you and go and talk to a priest.
Speaker 4:Amen, I agree with you and I absolutely loved, you know, being on this episode and talking about this topic. Maybe we can talk more into depth on the details of these, you know, within the straight evangelism and the mechanics within it. But other than that, yeah, Amen, john, take us out.
Speaker 3:Well, preach the good news in season, out of season, whether by words or deeds or both, and obviously with the right mindset, and it is a gift given to certain people. Not everyone is called to be a homily giver, right, and obviously with the right mindset, and it is a gift given to certain people. Not everyone is called to be a homily giver, right? Not everyone's called to be an apologist, but we are, each and every one of us, called to preach the gospel in our own unique way, and some people preach it by silence.
Speaker 1:Yes, well said you guys. Thank you so much. Awesome discussion. Those of you guys. Thank you so much. Awesome discussion. Those of you listening. Thank you for listening to the end of this. This has been Cloud of Witnesses Radio. Yes, but I've been joined with Priscilla and John. Super grateful for you guys. God bless you. Bye-bye, goodbye. John, thank you so much for staying right up to the point. I know you've got to run. Priscilla, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for staying right up to the point. I know you got to run, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm going to get Nico. Nico is coming on soon. I talked to him. Yes, it's going to be awesome. So we'll do this again soon. I love you guys. I really appreciate you.
Speaker 4:You too, jeremy. Thank you, god bless God bless you.