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Priscillaxdestiny (Priscilla Vargas) Protestant Finds the Heart of Holy Orthodoxy | TLTS011 CWP058
As the world grappled with isolation during the pandemic, Priscilla Destiny Vargas (Priscillaxdestiny) found herself on a spiritual expedition through the corridors of faith, leading her from the familiarity of Protestantism to the hallowed traditions of Eastern Orthodoxy. Her tale, woven from poignant conversations and theological reflection during a time of global retreat, is a beacon for those seeking a deeper understanding of Christianity's diverse tapestry. With TikTok as her unlikely vessel, Priscilla navigated the currents of religious discourse, her voyage marked by the guiding stars of history, scripture, and sacred practice, ultimately anchoring in the rich waters of Orthodoxy.
Our latest episode is a mosaic of Priscilla's transformative journey—her early Roman Catholic roots giving way to the allure and eventual disenchantment with Protestantism, and her candid exploration of Mormonism's unique draw, all before the solemn beauty of Eastern Orthodoxy beckoned her with its timeless allure. Her narrative is a masterclass in theological evolution, challenging listeners to contemplate their own beliefs about salvation, the interplay of faith and works, and the communal versus individualistic expressions of worship. Priscilla's story, one of profound personal and doctrinal discovery, invites us to consider the weight of tradition and the whispers of ancient practices in our own spiritual quests.
Finally, Priscilla's closing message resonates with a heartfelt call for gracious dialogue and an open-hearted search for spiritual authenticity. Her transition to Eastern Orthodoxy, marked by newfound passions and the embrace of liturgical depth, is a poignant reminder of faith's intricate journey—one that often unfolds in the most unexpected of places. Through her reflections on religious symbols, the role of sacraments, and the acceptance of mystery, this episode stands as a testament to the beautiful complexity of faith and the transformative power of honest seeking. Join us, and let the resilience and introspection of Priscilla's odyssey inspire your own voyage into the soul's expansive seas.
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Hi, this is Jeremy with Cloud of Witnesses Radio. Very, very excited. Today we have joining us Priscilla Priscilla, who's my friend from TikTok. How you doing, Priscilla?
Speaker 2:I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 1:Doing wonderful. Glory be to God. You know so, priscilla. You and I know each other from TikTok. How amazing is that. Do you want to tell our audience a little bit about how you and I met?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so actually I was Protestant at the time and I believe this was around the time during COVID, where everybody kind of was just we all joined, got on the app and you had stitched some of my videos.
Speaker 1:You were Eastern Orthodox, you're still Eastern, and Say Priscilla, tell our audience, for those of them that don't know what stitch means. What does stitch mean?
Speaker 2:So a stitch is like where I make a video and then Jeremy would do a react kind of to it. He would do a reply video to one of my videos and eventually he had taken a break and when he had came back from that break I was an Eastern Orthodox inquirer and now currently I am a catechumen since December 3rd. Thanks, megan.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, Priscilla, to me. I'm going to give some color to that because it's so true and this is over the course of I don't know, I mean at least a couple years. I want to say something along those lines where, for the audience to know, I mean TikTok, and here I'll just show just to give people an idea of what this world is like. You know, TikTok obviously is very, very busy, A lot of activity. Priscilla has a great channel on there and, Priscilla, obviously later in this episode we'll give you an opportunity to talk about your channel and how people can find you and whatnot. But on TikTok there's something called Christian TikTok, which Priscilla and I are part of, and it's this kind of a very large community, yet a subset of TikTok where there's a bunch of Christians, Protestants, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and then, of course, there's a whole slew of other things. Huh, Priscilla, you got your Mormons, you got your Jewish Witnesses.
Speaker 1:Oneness Pentecostals, yes, yes yes, charismatics, and then you get your ones. You get your ex-evangelicals right. You got these people who have left evangelicalism and they've made it their mission to talk about the terrors of evangelicalism. There's so many different perspectives on tick tock and it was in this kind of culture you know this, this community that priscilla and I met, and she's so right because, priscilla, you were a protestant and you were at the time you were kind of looking into Calvinism. I think Calvinism really appealed to you on some levels and, as you know, I'm a former Calvinist, so I completely get it.
Speaker 1:Can you talk to our audience a little bit about? Well, I think we need to get into your whole story really, but I just wanted to kind of just highlight how it's been such an amazing journey to see your kind of the what is it? The marketplace of ideas, right, and in that marketplace of ideas, you coming to grapple really with all kinds of Roman Catholic ideas, orthodox ideas, other Protestant ideas, you know, non-christian ideas, and for you to find Orthodoxy in the midst of all. That is truly, truly amazing. So as we head in that direction, priscilla, can we go back and talk about who you are and where you've come from? Can you tell us about your story.
Speaker 2:For sure. So currently, right now, I am 28. I am a mother of two, I live in a small town, I work from home. That's pretty much where I'm at right now, nothing too big or drastic. But as far as my childhood goes and my upbringing and up to today, it's been a journey. So, starting off, I did not have parents. Growing up, my parents were alcoholics, they were drug addicts, they were in and out of prison, they were very violent and fighting, and so they never once had custody of me. I ended up going to my dad's sister, which is my aunt, and both of their mom, which is my grandma, and living with them, and they ended up raising me my aunt and my grandmother Now them and they ended up raising me my aunt and my grandmother, now my aunt. She worked two jobs and so she was always busy and she couldn't really teach me anything about the faith. I did grow up Roman Catholic.
Speaker 1:So she did her best to try and implement Roman Catholicism. I went to church regularly every single Sunday I did CCD. So she was devout. She actually went to Mass, took you to Mass.
Speaker 2:That was an important part of her life, it sounds like For sure. But I don't think I was catechized. Well, despite going to youth group and DCYC and all of these you know events, I was never. I never opened up a Bible. I was not told to read the catechism thing about the faith. I thought, for example, the Immaculate Conception. I thought that was to Jesus, the Immaculate Conception. I thought that was a reference to Jesus the whole time.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yeah, I think that's, and I'm sorry for cutting you off, priscilla, but I'm just I'm so fascinated by your story and I want to really let you tell your story. So I want, I want to get the detail in there. Do you think that you weren't catechized well because she was working two jobs and so busy? Or do you put more of the reason on the church itself, the Catholic church? What were your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:So, looking back, I do definitely think it is the church 100%, because not everybody there's this emphasis of, or overemphasis of, placing all of the responsibility and burden of the parents, and sometimes kids don't have a two parent household and so it's very difficult and they also don't really promote it, like during after the mass or during announcements or anything to like go home, read your Bible, make sure your catechism, things like that that's not really encouraged.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, things like that, that's not really encouraged. And then, yeah, my grandmother she did not know English very much at all, but I did see her pray the rosary every day, so that kind of also influenced me to do that, and but outside of that, I really didn't have an understanding or or concept of anything like the Trinity, I just knew Jesus was. I didn't know all of these, that it's so intricate and there's so many details. And I do 100% think like, yeah, it is the church. Because if you look within Eastern Orthodoxy, I see it so differently. Now, given the godparents as well, especially within Catholicism, you're usually given two and they have to meet certain requirements, and those requirements can be kind of hard to find, so they usually just get anybody that can meet the requirements, whereas within Eastern Orthodoxy, your godparents are very much and well active.
Speaker 1:And I think I think it sounds like you've got excellent godparents, priscilla, if I'm here, or a godparent, if I'm hearing you correctly, which is pretty awesome. I think they vary. They vary in how you know connected and active. They are probably dependent on their personalities, but I do just want to mention.
Speaker 2:In addition, I received all my sacraments and then, when I was 19, I ended up leaving Catholicism on my own, as I ended up getting married to a guy and my first daughter's dad and, looking back, his family was Pentecostal Interesting. Yeah, his, his grandparents were actually the. The grandfather was a pastor, was the pastor of that church, he would call himself apostle and yeah, and I remember you know weird things like being pushed back and not feeling like I wanted to do that. And also there was like this false prophet that said my sister in law that was pregnant at the time, his sister, she was of a boy and named him Samuel and she ended up having a girl. Me not reading the scriptures, I did not know any better. So, as I was entering with him in this new religion or denomination, I actually had no concept of denominations, I just thought there was just a whole bunch of churches and they're all local and you just go to one and if you like it and if you don't, then go find another one.
Speaker 2:And I ended up being getting pregnant with our first daughter and so the issue came up with whether or not we were going to baptize her as Catholic. I did at the time, still associate myself as Catholic, and so I wanted to baptize her because I knew that's what you were supposed to do. And even then, like I said, I did not have a proper understanding of why we do infant baptism. I just knew we were supposed to do it. And then his grandparents called us over to their house and they explained to me you know, catholics worship Mary and it's not OK to put her on the same pedestal as Christ, and yeah, so I ended up going through with his family. We got her just dedicated Dedication.
Speaker 1:I was dedicated as a Protestant. Yeah, as a little baby, but go on.
Speaker 2:Wow and yeah, both of my daughters, I believe. They were dedicated and so that happened, but then, unfortunately, that did not work out. The marriage, you know, ended up just not being healthy. We parted ways and then I ended up getting a job and then I met my second daughter's dad and so I had her and at this point I think I considered myself just a floating christian. Interesting, I don't think I can link any longer to catholicism just because of the previous family. My daughters, my first daughter's dad's family got me out of that and so priscilla.
Speaker 1:They, if I'm hearing you correctly and correct me if I'm wrong their their influence. The time you were spent with your husband at that time, they in essence convinced you that, hey, catholicism is bad. And so did you see yourself as a Protestant. It sounds like you weren't really thinking in those categories. You just thought you were a Christian, were you? Was your faith important to you back then?
Speaker 2:I believe that I knew I was supposed to believe in God. I don't think that ever wavered, I don't think I ever lost my faith, but I do believe I was like a nominal Christian, like you just believe because you know you're supposed to, but you don't know anything about Jesus Christ or what he did for you. And so, yeah, I knew I did not associate with Catholicism at this point when I met my second daughter's dad, but I also did not know the terms like Protestantism, and so I just knew I was like a Christian or a believer. Yeah, I was like a Christian or a believer and then with that situation, unfortunately, like I just had, I guess, had a habit or I ended up getting into myself into the same situation twice and things did not work out with that one as well, with that relationship and, um, he ended up taking his own life after we ended and looking back, I'm like I I do believe he would have loved eastern orthodoxy. I ponder about that a lot. Um, now, and I've healed from it. It's been.
Speaker 2:My daughter now is almost six years old, so it's been a few years and I've got the help that I needed for that and I end up going to a pregnancy resource center that ends up helping me. From there, they end up referring me to a non-denominational church I end up going to. So now, leaving Pentecostalism to a floating Christian. I'm officially a non-denominational Christian At this point. I end up going to church regularly. This was something new to me. I end up going to church regularly. This was something new to me. The Bible studies were so new to me and I absolutely loved them and enjoyed them, and I even went as far as to get baptized with this non-denominational church and I actually had two of my baptisms. Oh, wow. So it was a small, non-denominational church. It was not a mega evangelical church. I will get'll talk about it more later, but you know, I just feel very honored to know you and that you are sharing your story with our audience.
Speaker 1:I have no doubt is going to resonate with people out there. I also wanted to just say thank you to despite me being baptized and going to church regularly and studies still managed to almost fall for mormonism. Yeah, tell how this happened. Tell this.
Speaker 2:I want to hear this whole thing, oh yeah, so just for the disclaimer to be out there, I 100 believe all of this is from just not reading the scriptures, not knowing the word of god, um, which is why I ended up becoming extremely soulless. Script Torah, which we will get into later.
Speaker 1:Yes, we will.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, once again, not knowing the scriptures, I ended up getting in touch with these missionaries from the Mormon church, the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Speaker 1:You mean they got in touch with you?
Speaker 2:This was during COVID too, so they definitely reached out. They were able to go through Facebook, and so I actually never ended up joining the church. I was only involved with it for three months. But I want to emphasize that it's so traumatizing that even for a person like myself, who was only involved for three months, there's so much that you're just affected by, and that three months really felt like a year. I was attending their church every Sunday. I was. I read the Book of Mormon before I even read the Bible. Wow.
Speaker 1:Did you know what Mormons were? Did you did people at your church? Were they like why are you going to a LDS church? Like, like, talk to us about that. What was that time period like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I actually didn't tell my non-denominational church that I was attending this church in secrecy, checking it out, and my attendance with my non-denominational church was actually decreasing and I would go every once in a while to kind of check in and make it seem like I was still, you know going to the church.
Speaker 2:So I loved how family oriented they were. I loved that they were very convincing and they made it seem like like, for example, they told me that the reason why there's so many 1000s of different denominations is because you only have half of the truth of different denominations is because you only have half of the truth. The Bible is for one side of the world and the Book of Mormon is for the other side of the world, and when you put the two books together, you have the restored gospel in its full lens and you know the whole families can be forever. You can get sealed in the temple with your children, don't you want to do that? And um, wow, yeah, all of these misleading things they don't tell you. There's a lot that they do not tell you. They withhold from you until after you join um, and so, yeah, I didn't know anything, anything about mormonism, um to you.
Speaker 1:It was just some other christian body that was like, hey, we have more information for you and and and. Because you were going to that non-denominational church, it might have been appealing. Because you're like, oh, this, you know, because there are thousands of denominations and I'm just going to this little non-denominational church and you're telling me about this big, full thing that gives the complete picture like, oh, I can see why that's appealing, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I will admit to you know, at this point, I was gullible and naive. I still, to this day, think I am a little bit, but I'm at least aware of it now. So, yeah, some other things that I ended up doing with them within this three months was I began to obey what is called the word of wisdom, which is don't drink coffee or tea, and also I had downloaded the gospel library app app, and for them it's so convenient because everything is on that app.
Speaker 1:It's true, the, the, the Mormon organization, right, the, the church of the Latter-day Saints. They are very well funded, right? This is just common knowledge. People know this. They have a lot of money, they're very well organized, they're very they're administratively, they're run run very well like a business, if you will. And yes, like I've heard of these things, I've even seen that they have other sources online because, as you know, even from TikTok, priscilla, there's all kinds of X they call it XMOs, right, x Mormons who are on TikTok and, you know, on YouTube of course as well, who are basically saying hey, you know, try to open the eyes of Mormons to say this stuff. You know you should leave. And the Mormon church has responded right, the Mormon church has created websites where they give literally the answers, kind of like hey, are you being challenged with this question? Here's the answer for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also they are very cult like. So they have a lot of attributes that are very like. If you try to point something out that's actually legit, questionable, they will tell you doubt your doubt before you doubt your faith. I personally, and also they recommend you to stay away from anybody that is telling you anything negative about the church because it's considered anti Mormon literature or anti Mormon doctrine.
Speaker 2:I ended up fasting with them for the first time ever in my life I began to dress more modest and I will admit this, there's a lot of good that I did take from them. You know you take the good of what you learn from everything, and what I learned from them was definitely modesty. So, yeah, I did many lessons with the missionaries. I got really close to the church members. I even got to experience general conference, which that only happens twice a year, where the prophet speaks, big event where everybody gathers and watches on their TV to see the new revelation, and so I thought that was really cool that I got to experience that within just the three months that I was there.
Speaker 1:You're absolutely right, they're not bad people. They do a lot of good things. In fact, recently there was the Walk for Life here in San Diego and actually around the country There've been various Walk for Lives in the pro-life movement and Mormons are very pro-life. I think you're, you know, lord willing, you're seeing that all of those things were little pieces of the fullness of the truth, because orthodoxy has all of that right. Orthodoxy is all of that. It's important to say that. You know we're not bashing Mormons, we're not bashing Roman Catholics. Know, we're not bashing Mormons, we're not bashing Roman Catholics, we're not bashing non-denominational, uh, christians, because, by and large, most people I look, I was there, you were there, priscilla I think we were in some way trying to sincerely follow and find God right and have a relationship with God. Um, and, and all I can is let's, let's continue to pray, you know, for for those people in those scenarios that they might someday, you know, come to the fullness of the faith.
Speaker 2:Going off what you were saying, with the modesty and promoting families and things like that, a lot of it can kind of come off as they do it for salvation, because they need to do those things in order to get to their highest heaven. They believe in three heavens and that, you know, marriage is essential into being exalted and becoming a god of your own planet, and these were things that I was not taught, you know, by the missionaries and when I found out I was very shocked and kind of hurt and angry. Sure. So yeah, it is a very high, demanding religion. And, with that being said, I had a friend who had passed away from cancer in the Mormon church and I remember going to their funeral and I was completely shunned, I was isolated, nobody talked to me, they were taking pictures all together smiling, and I was just kind of by myself because I had left a little while back and I was kind of outspoken about it and they don't want you to talk about your experiences.
Speaker 2:The brother actually ended up coming up to me and said how did you know my brother? And I told him I had met him while I was inquiring into the church for a little bit and everything you said about him was true Like he loved nature, he loved animals like pets inquiring into the church for a little bit and everything you said about him was true Like he loved nature, he loved animals like pets, he loved cooking and he loved music. And I just think it's really unfortunate that they kind of outcast you when you leave, because it's not about how a church treats you when you join, because any church can be welcoming. It's about how they treat you if and when you decide to leave and walk away. So, yeah, most of the time they end up just going after people who are spiritually, emotionally and mentally vulnerable and I just have one of those people at the time and that's for converts, for people that are born into the faith. Obviously they're victims as well because they're indoctrinated from birth.
Speaker 1:Like you said, it's kind of this bubble right, They've created this bubble that they want their adherence to remain in bubble right, They've created this bubble that they want their adherence to remain in.
Speaker 2:But once again, there are some things that I do take away from them that were good, like, for example, one of the missionaries actually told me to, or they asked if I pray with my kids at night, with my children, and I never thought about that and it's literally because of that missionary that every single night, ever since I was with my kids at night.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. But going to how I got out of that, I had actually went to my last Bible study with my non-denominational church and I had told them I didn't just leave. I ended up telling them this is going to be my last Bible study. I found a faith group that's a little bit more suiting to me and my family and I told them that it was the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints, the LDS Church, and then that's when they sat me down, they pulled me aside from the rest of the study group and they closed the door and they told me the deeper doctrines that I didn't know about, and so that's kind of how I got out of that. I canceled my baptism because I was actually supposed to be baptized that weekend I believe that week. So yeah, it's very interesting because, overall, they believe in three gods with one purpose, whereas we believe there's one God with three purposes.
Speaker 1:Well, they, they, yeah, I mean they completely deny the Trinity, right they believe in. Really, if you take their theory of that, you know, when you are in the exalted afterlife, you will have your own planet, you will procreate spiritual children. You know, with this endless uh, you know celestial sex, like it's, you get countless gods, right, you get countless, countless, countless gods, and it's so. It really is a a, a polytheistic religion. You know, tragically and sadly. And of course, you know you talk to any mormon on the street and they're going to say no, no, we only believe in one god. Because what they're saying is what they mean is they only believe in our god, the god of this planet, right, which is our father, right? Who's that?
Speaker 2:Father that, honestly, if there's one term that really affects me to this day, it's whenever I hear Heavenly Father. Even when I went back to my non denominational church, I would say that occasionally, from time to time, like once in a blue moon, Heavenly Father, and it really, it's it, just it bothers me so much.
Speaker 1:But the idea has been so skewed in Mormonism to create because they believe we are literally the offspring right of God, the God the Father, in Mormonism. From my Protestant background I talk about this a lot. Actually, I still have all kinds of Protestant hangups, things, that ways of thinking about things. One of the beautiful things of Orthodoxy that I love is this idea that you know, because God is eternal right, we know that God is, you know, has forever existed and he's completely infinite and his love is infinite and his knowledge is infinite. All you know all these, these attributes of God, and so this idea that we will forever be learning and growing towards God and getting closer to God and learning more about God. I love that because it's not static.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Then from Mormonism I end up reverting back to my non-denominational church. When I ended up reverting back and sticking with my non-denominational church, I ended up becoming very hell-bent on the scriptures. Because I was so traumatized by Mormonism I said, had I only known the scriptures, or if everybody knew the scriptures or read them, nobody would be falling for all of these false gospels. And so I was very. I became super sola scriptura. As you know, I started even going extreme to Calvinism. I considered myself a reformed, non-denominational Calvinist, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wrap your head around that one, yeah. And then I learned that it's not enough actually just to believe in the five points of tulip and the five solas. Just because you're a Calvinist, that does not make you reformed. And I think once I learned that I was actually shocked by that.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by that, Priscilla? Can you say more about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I thought in my head I can go to my non-denominational church and have that personal relationship with Christ On the side. When I go home I can do my reform studies and I Calvinist and the five solas and the 5.2 lip, um kind of deal. And then I learned that when you zoom out in a scope and you see the forest for the trees, historically true reform Protestantism, the classical high church Protestants, are not the same as the 1800 restorationist movement it's called the Scott Campbell stone movement, I believe and the non-denominational people that I was a part of. They not them specifically, but the founding like group. The whole idea was no creeds but Christ, not hold on to creeds or anything. And this is where you have this whole. I don't believe in denominations and it's just a relationship. They were actually trying to get away from things like Calvinism. So it's not compatible with the true 1500 Protestants versus the 1800 Protestants.
Speaker 1:It was that devolution, that continuous, which happens in any sort of revolution, which the Reformation was. Our Reformation brothers and sisters, they don't realize how radical the shift was that the Reformers introduced. They don't realize the radical paradigm shift it is For all of our Protestant brothers and sisters out there. I pray, pray, pray that they continue to look critically at the foundations of Protestantism because it's so, so destructive to the, to the unity of the church.
Speaker 2:I ended up obviously stumbling upon or discovering this fact and I'm a person who I can take correction even though it might not seem like it. If it's proven, if it's fact, it's fact, I have to ultimately accept it. I'm not going to reject it or be in denial or have cognitive dissonance Like I want to know the truth. At this point I'm thinking I want to know the truth. Yes, when somebody presented that information to me, I was stuck in a loop of like well, I either now have to still be non-denominational or I have to move up to reformformed Protestant, the high classical church, and be either Presbyterian, lutheran or Anglican. Covenant theology is actually what ended up really getting me out of non-denominational, at least for the time being, because covenant theology includes things like infant baptism and things, whereas you know within non-denominational and Baptists and they believe more so in adult baptism and that it's spiritual, it's symbolic.
Speaker 1:You believe in baptism yep. From that non-denominational perspective you were in as you're coming into Calvinism, the covenant theology is very eye-opening right, because it fits all the boxes. You can categorize everything, no doubt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so my issue, though, was accepting infant baptism, because I'm like, in my head, I'm thinking, no, they can't accept it. They have to be consciously, like, aware of it. And I was doing a lot of talking with other people behind the scenes, and what somebody told me was you know, in the old covenant, god did not care whether or not a child knew or could be conscious about circumcision. You know, he commanded it, and so it's the same thing. And also, if it's something good, why would you withhold it from your child? You know, just because your child does not understand how to eat yet, does that mean you don't feed them? They don't have to have a proper understanding in order for the parent or the guardian above them to do what's best for them.
Speaker 1:You know we'll maybe talk about it a bit more later, but you know, you and I, you know we used to go back and forth on TikTok quite a bit. You know, something I think we maybe I want to remind our audience of is over this course of what we've been talking about more recently, right, this, this Calvinistic you know interest that you had, et cetera. This is all happening while you're on TikTok and we're discussing it. And you know we went back and forth quite a bit of occasions, priscilla, to your credit, where it wasn't necessarily me, but somebody would say something to you and you would do a response video and say something along the lines of you know what? I don't agree with Joe here and here, but I will admit that what Joe says here, I think he's actually correct about that, or I can.
Speaker 1:I can respect that you're. You were always very interested, priscilla, in truth, and you were willing to admit, when you saw something eventually, that you were like you know what? I think that was wrong about that and that takes a lot of of strength. It's that willingness that you showed even back then that, I imagine, ultimately gave you the skills and the tools to allow you to start to open your eyes to orthodoxy. But I don't want to jump ahead to that, but I just wanted to point that out.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to get to the reactions of all of the people when I told them that I was considering just considering joining Eastern Orthodoxy or inquiring into it. I have not yet to take any of my videos down because I'm not ashamed of them. I've had people come to me and tell me look at how quickly you've jumped from religion to religion to religion. I don't view it as insulting. I view it as me being able to be vulnerable. I've had people tell me that that's respectable, that you are keeping your journey up for people to see you go through these changes. So I do want to go back a little bit and talk about Calvinism.
Speaker 2:During this time I or looking back, I do view it now as God being a very hateful and angry God, and it took a lot to deconstruct from that. They believe in things like double predestination, whereas predestination is not bad in reference to the elect. We just believe in single predestination versus them. They believe that people are it's decreed that both not only go to heaven, but some are decreed to hell, whereas we know that theologically this is incorrect and god desires all to go to heaven and through our free will we go to, we choose, you know to go, and and so now I kind of just want to talk about the different beliefs within Protestantism that I held on to. So we have things such as the rapture. You know, come to find out that's an innovation that some woman had a dream and then a guy took that and ran with it, and now it's this huge thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, we have the visible church versus the invisible church. As a Protestant, I believed in the invisible body where oh, it's just, but now I know that it is truly God left a visible church and part of it is the invisible body under the invisible body of believers, falls under that visible church.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, you know, I would hear things like it's all about a relationship and to me, when I left, I thought to myself I want to deepen that relationship A hundred percent. It's about a relationship. An example or an analogy that one of our TikTok friends used was you know, are you going to settle for a relationship with no wedding ring, you don't have any commitment to do, and or are you going to go all the way and are you going to get married? Are you going to commit?
Speaker 1:And I say on that point, because you know you mentioned how you know someone or people said to you you know, oh, you know, you're whatever. You're jumping quickly from religion to religion. You know, hearing your story here today, priscilla, in fullness, I've always, I think I've known a good portion of it, but not all of it. I don't see that at all. You know, what I see is someone who, in the early stages, you were in certain places by circumstance, right. You were brought up in a Catholic environment because that's who your aunt and your grandma were right. You were brought up in a Catholic environment because that's who your aunt and your grandma were right, and that makes sense. And then you know, you get married and they were, you know, pentecostal or you know whatever that sect was, and so you were there, you know.
Speaker 1:But I think, from that point your story, I see this person who is genuinely looking for truth because you want that truth, and so that's what I see there and I think that there's a, a humility there. Now don't get me wrong, can that be dangerous? Sure, right, of course we don't want to just be constantly, you know, tossed to and fro, you know, in the wind or in the waves, and so I think that that's actually a strength of your story and not a weakness.
Speaker 2:And maybe he knew I couldn't handle it all at once and I needed to go through these things in order to make it to where I am now within Eastern Orthodoxy, and so one of the other many things that I had to or I came across was the Masoretic text versus the Septuagint and coming to find out that the Septuagint is the one that's most accurate, or it's more accurate. It was the one Greek language was used. Was the language the universal language at that time for the region or that area, and that Jesus quoted often from it, and why the Masoretic wasn't necessarily trusted? Because the Jews kind of tampered with it.
Speaker 1:Let's paint this picture a little bit. You have been, you know, at this point in your journey you've basically are, you know, kind of pretty much a Calvinist, or certainly appreciating Calvinism a lot more. You're defending Calvinism in a lot of ways. On your TikTok channel You're combating Catholics and other. You know, regular Protestants who are not Calvinist, and you're also talking with some Eastern Orthodox people. Can you talk to us about that time frame, because it sounds like this is where Orthodoxy maybe makes its appearance in your life. Is that accurate? Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I end up questioning, yes, so I end up questioning, so I'm still putting out Calvinist content and what I believe to be reformed content, as I am questioning myself and my own beliefs behind the scenes, things like Sola Scriptura, where it's, you know, the Bible is viewed as the fallible or the soul.
Speaker 1:The soul, infallible, source of truth and doctrine.
Speaker 2:Authority. Yes, it's the highest, and it doesn't mean that they can't go outside or use other sources. And um, and that too is a funny thing, when I left I got a lot of people asking or they'll always tell you that you never truly understood it? And my response is first of all, I give them the definition and I tell them I fully understood it, I think. And the second, people can fully understand something and reject it. That is an option. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I have to. I have to jump in on that because, as you know, I was, I was a Calvinist, I spent years as a Calvinist. Okay, I was a Calvinist for for years and you know, at the time, you know I was very, very interested in, I read constantly in Calvinism. I absolutely understood Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide and Sola Gratia, et cetera. And they I get told all the time, oh, you just didn't understand it, you don't understand.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I think that whenever they hear that we don't believe in Sola Scriptura, I think to them what they hear is you don't believe that the scriptures are infallible, and it's like no, we believe that they are infallible, we just don't believe they're the sole or only infallible source. And so, as far as scripture goes, you know, you'll hear oftentimes that scripture can interpret scripture. And I would argue and disagree with that and say scripture is clear in some places, like I will admit, scripture is clear in some places, but in a lot of other places it's not clear. So then that, then that's where you know what are you going to do and that's where you get these other, these, all these other interpretations or misinterpretations um, bingo, you.
Speaker 1:You nailed it, priscilla. You talk to anyone, I don't care, go grab a denomination. We can find certain passages that they are going to say this is clear. But then you go and talk to some other disagreeing denominations are going to say, no, that's, that's less clear and that's, it's actually this scripture. That's more clear.
Speaker 2:It should be your guy, it's like and so that's when I started realizing like, yes, the church authority is important and it does matter. And and then you, you, you get to the canon conundrum, right, the question how many books are in the canon, or how do you know which books belong in the canon? And then you have the people that throw Second Timothy 316, all scripture is breathable except these books.
Speaker 2:Except the ones that we're not referring to exactly, and so it's like well, when it says all scripture is breathable. What is all scripture? What you?
Speaker 1:know like that is right there in itself, orthodoxy. It, as you know it doesn't get too bogged down in quote-unquote, the strict theology of this or that, but rather we know that christ and they, through his apostles, created a real church with a real structure of bishops and priests and deacons, and that in that church the scriptures have come right. The scriptures reflect the truth of the living word, right, the living body of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2:I do now. I see it as Christ being the head, the church which he left and is guided by the Holy Spirit. It is alive and well and it is showing that it is prevailing every single day for the past 2000 years. And church.
Speaker 1:Then we get these scriptures it's so beautiful to hear you say this we get these scriptures. It's so beautiful to hear you say this. You know, having heard your journey, now it is you're absolutely. You've been so blessed by God, even through the difficulties that you faced in your life. This was coming out in a time when you were in TikTok and, like you had said, I had kind of left and kind of ironically, priscilla, the reason I left TikTok is because of this right here, me and Nick started building Cloud of Witnesses radio about a year ago and it began taking more and more and more of my time.
Speaker 1:And then I came back and I think in I believe it honestly, priscilla, it's, it's fortuitous, as it was the hand of god on this one of the very first things I saw, for whatever reason, when I just popped back on a tiktok, it was a video of you and it was something about you know, I could get the the name wrong, but something along the lines of why I'm considering orthodoxy or something like that, and I was like Priscilla, like Priscilla, priscilla, you know what I mean. I couldn't believe it. And so talk to us about that, cause I want to know cause I wasn't around what was going on, during that time period, when I was not on Tik TOK and you were, you were coming to learn more about orthodoxy. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was talking to. I ended up encountering a wonderful group of Eastern Orthodox brethren and they kind of pointed out all of these issues to me. They were very patient with me. I was stubborn, I kept.
Speaker 2:I had to get told multiple like things multiple times in order for it to finally click.
Speaker 2:Like as far as the how do you know how many books go in your Canon? I would try to dismiss it and explain it and be very um, argumentative or combative or you know, and then, after getting told so many times, it just ends up, I don't know, getting through, I guess. And so, through those people, I'm very blessed that they worked with me through they worked with me through these, these topics, and I'll and I'll get more into the topics that we were discussing. Like we were just talking about sola scriptura and um, next is once saved, always saved. We'll get into that. But overall, the gist is, yes, while you were away, I ended up realizing, or coming to this conclusion, that it's not just Catholicism, roman Catholicism and Protestantism, there's this third option, and it's when I discovered that I was like, wow, like the West as a whole just seems so messy, like the West as a whole just seems so messy, and the wild, wild West, right, yeah, and it's getting wilder every day, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I just looked at it historically after the schism, which one kind of succeeded a little bit better, and so we'll get into like the one saved, always saved, and I kind of.
Speaker 2:The reason why I do want to talk about these theological topics is because I had actually taken notes as I was transitioning and leaving out of Protestantism into Orthodoxy, just because I didn't want to forget what my thought process was like. Because I think oftentimes what ends up happening is one of two things either one, a person is born catholic and so they can never understand a protestant's mind and they and it almost comes off as mockery they mock protestants. Or two, um, they, they end up leaving Protestantism and they convert to Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, but then they forget what it was like being in their position. And so I told myself I never want to talk down on my non-denominational brothers and sisters and or anybody. That because and that's also something that I really love about orthodoxy and at the very end I'll kind of wrap it up with all the things that I love about eastern orthodoxy and one of these things is, um, this whole mindset or or mantra of heterodox versus heretic right.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:Catholics deem you heretic, whereas the East handles people with delicacy and, like I said, I've seen nothing but love, grace and mercy within Eastern Orthodoxy and I kind of just want to give that back, because these people just need correction. They don't need to be condemned, they need to be corrected with love and out of love. Going back to some of the talking points that I was doing behind the scenes with these Eastern Orthodox brethren and friends, one of them, you know, as we mentioned, with soul script Torah. This next one is one saved, always saved, and I learned that it was.
Speaker 2:It's a heresy, called fatalism to actually believe that. Well, for one within Calvinism, it's a heresy because you're, you're saying that somebody's fate is already doomed to hell. So that's them. And then the flip side, even if you're not Calvinist and you're just an evangelical and you say I know I'm saved, once saved, always saved. Eternal security, preservation of the saints, perseverance of the saints, whatever you want to call it, perseverance of the saints, whatever you want to call it, um, that is still fatalism. You're saying that your fate, you know where your fate is and that you're going to go to heaven. So, um, that I learned and I and I, I was told. I think it was condemned actually in a council, the council of jerusalem, not the first one in acts but but the Council of Jerusalem later, and I think it was that one where fatalism was actually addressed.
Speaker 1:Can I speak to that a little bit, priscilla, because it is? It's such an important point and I want to speak more to the you know the practice, the praxis in orthodoxy. What's so important and so beautiful about orthodoxy in relation to how it's different from the determinism, the fatalism, you know, of the once saved, always saved, belief, is that, because I've seen it and I saw it in my own life as a Protestant, when I was a Protestant and I was a, you know, I believed in once saved, always saved for a time. It's, it's.
Speaker 1:We talked earlier about the static, that static nature and it's so true of in the West, the way we think of things in the West, of this idea I'm saved. It happened on October 27thober 27th, you know, whatever, you know, 2012, whatever it was, that's it. And it's kind of like, well, now what, now what? And and I believe it's one of the reasons, priscilla, that in protestantism, people tend to spin out of the church over time. Right, there's people leaving Protestantism in droves, right, they call them nuns, n-o-n-e. Right, like none, like no religion, but they still think they're Christian in some way, even though they don't go to church.
Speaker 1:It's because, why? Why go to church? You're saved, you're saved. There's no relationship that we talked about, right. There's no involvement, there's no free will in the sense of, hey, I am trying every single day to be that prodigal that's coming back right. I'm trying every single day to learn and grow in Christ. To me, it's one of the most important elements of the distinctions between orthodoxy and people who are, you know, once saved, always saved, is that our faith is meant to be lived, right. Paul says offer yourselves as living sacrifices, right? So, anyways, I love that you brought that up. Thank you for bringing that to our attention, because it is, it is a very important distinction between our groups.
Speaker 2:Not only are we saved, but we're being saved and we hope to be saved. And so I actually have a tattoo on me of a scripture 1 Corinthians 118, where it says for the message of the cross is folly, it's foolish. To those who are perishing I-N-G. Perishing, not perished. But to us who are being saved, not saved, being I-N-G again, it is the power of God. And so, yeah, or I would like to go on to the topic of faith alone sola fide, no works or works cannot save you. And so it's always this question is faith a gift or is it a work? And I always like to say that it's both, because say very clear that faith is a gift, but that gift must be put to work, that gift needs to be used, put to work, that gift needs to be used, this whole works thing.
Speaker 2:The way that I see the gospel is in the Old Testament it was works out of obligation with no grace, because Christ had not yet come right. So works out of obligation with no grace, and that was considered faith as a whole. The whole thing is faith. But the New Testament you have works no longer out of obligation but out of love, and now there is grace because Christ now has came and that is now considered faith. And then obviously there's topics like monergism versus synergism. Right Do we? Does God do all of the work within us? So those that believe in monergism. They view synergism as bad, because if you do anything, you're taking away glory from God. If you say you do anything, you cooperate with him, you have stripped glory from God and that's why they cling on to all glory to God. He does all of the work, none of me. But what if I told you that by using the free will that God gave you and wants you to use to cooperate with his grace out of love, you are giving him the ultimate glory?
Speaker 1:And he allowed in the Garden of Eden, for there to not only be the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but he allowed the serpent to come in. You think God couldn't have stopped the serpent? Of course it could have, but he allowed them. Why, as a test right To give the excuse me, to give the opportunity for his creatures to freely choose either to follow his commands or not because people always ask you know atheists or whoever they can say?
Speaker 2:why did he even put them there in the first place if he knew they were going to sin and this whole thing was going to happen? And it's like because if he didn't, they would have been trapped and caged. And that is not love. Free will and choice are like inseparable, like you know you.
Speaker 1:They're together and but that's not to say that you're saved one second. You're not saved the next. This is all within running that race that paul talks about and you've mentioned priscilla right to, so that we might endure until the end. Ultimately, ultimately speaking, it's all in the eternal grace and days of obligation. And you know mortal sins and did you commit a mortal sin? You have to. You know all these categories In orthodoxy. It's much more about we all fall. We're all falling short of the glory of God. So what do you do? Start now anew.
Speaker 2:Then Jesus said to the 12, do you also want to go away? So he's giving you the free will to choose him because he loves us. And then it says but Simon Peter answered him Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. And so we hear that because we love him back, we do we, we, we choose, we choose him daily by the free will he has given us.
Speaker 1:He was telling them if you don't eat my flesh and drink my blood, there is no life in you, Right? And he repeats himself, and it was a hard saying, and that's why some of these people like we can't understand this and they left, because another crucial doctrine of orthodoxy, and that is, we believe in the real body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist, and it's it's a practice to this day and it's one Eucharist, and it's a practice to this day and it's one, unfortunately, many Protestants have completely rejected and have moved away from. And I think it's a great highlight with what you're talking about, priscilla. We have the choice every day to follow Christ or not, as well as to see that there are hard things, right, there are hard things to understand, there are hard things to do. Orthodoxy is hard.
Speaker 2:It's so interesting because in Genesis he actually commands either Moses or Noah, I don't remember, but I made a video about this on my TikTok, actually and in Genesis that's the first time that he actually commands do not eat flesh and blood. And then the beautiful parallel where Jesus it's because we're waiting for him to come down and then he commands unless you eat my flesh and blood. And then he gives the okay and the consent and the command to do it, to do so.
Speaker 1:You can see where Protestants are trying to fill the vacuum. Right, they've gotten rid of all the sacraments of the church, except for a couple, maybe, depending on what denomination you're in. And so they think, well, we should do something, right, there should be something special that we do with babies, right, ceremonially. So they think, well, let's dedicate them, let's pray over them, right, and that's all great, and that's fine, and it's you know, you can see, it's a good intention. But they don't realize the church has had a ceremony for bringing the babies into the church for 2000 years, right, and it's? And it's the baptism that you've been referring to. You don't need a dedication, you don't need to make it up on your own. Hey guys, let's, let's call it dedicating. You know what I mean, and so I love that, priscilla. So thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Speaker 2:So, going to the non-denominationals, something that I think we all see present currently in modern time is you know, if you were to remove the sound from a mega church and just watch the video, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between if it's a church or a concert. It's not a show for us, us, it's supposed to be for god, and the scriptures are very clear when it talks about do not be conformed by this world or do not be conformed to this world because I I really want to talk about something here and can I, can I show it?
Speaker 1:I, I think it's um so awesome because it was one of the. Where is it? Well, you posted so there. You posted this video and I'm not exactly sure what date this is, I can't see it, but ready to be made a catechumen tomorrow, right? And you said, yes, right, it's such a beautiful thing. And then you posted this video here. So that is awesome. That's Priscilla right there during the catechumen, being made a catechumen in the church. How beautiful Priscilla. That is awesome. Can we watch a little bit more of this? Yeah for sure. The spirit of air, the spirit of God, the spirit of adultery. So awesome, you had someone video this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, and there you are saying the creed. I love that. No, philly McQuay, we don't have to get into it. What I need to do, priscilla, we're going to definitely have to have you on more, because there's obviously so much to talk about.
Speaker 2:So yeah, with these mega churches, it's just interesting because you see these 6,000 people who they're not getting the help that they need. And I actually know somebody on TikTok who they just barely met their pastor with him and they uploaded it and I'm like that's not good, that you just met a pastor and there's no way that all these people are going to be able to get the help that they truly need. Something else within Protestantism that I felt was the sense of urgency and responsibility to share the gospel, and we know that fear is from the enemy and we're told not to worry or be anxious During this time. Fast forward.
Speaker 2:I actually was going through something and during this time it was very lonely. People struggle with real things and you know, all you get told is we'll pray for you or pray about it or read the scriptures. That's all you have is the scriptures and so there's no pastoral counseling or advice that can really be there for you and help you. Yeah, I made multiple attempts with very little to no advice. You know, coming into Orthodoxy, I've learned to love the priest. I used to be like you know why would I just confess to another sinful man when I can go directly to God. You know, going directly to God sometimes is very lonely and, as we talked about, god left us a church with a hierarchy that is meant for the people. It's meant to be there to help us. So I just have a deep respect for priests and the overall role that they serve.
Speaker 1:Amen, it's there for our salvation. That's because it's so true Priscilla, true Priscilla again. The role of the priest and your spiritual father and being able to go to somebody and talk about sin and your sins and get forgiveness from God in the supervision, if you will, of the priest and the guidance of the priest, the wisdom of the priest, is such a beautiful thing. And you're exactly right, God knew that his people would struggle with sin and problems, and you know tragedies in lives. And so what did he do? He didn't leave us just with a book, right. He left us with people. He left us with the church, right, and that includes deacons and the presbyteras, right, the priest wives who, as I'm sure you know or you're starting to see, the priest wives have an incredibly important function in the church.
Speaker 2:A fun fact that I learned was that when the priest bows, that's his way of asking us for forgiveness, and I just thought it was beautiful. Everything in Orthodoxy has meaning behind it. I also like that it's a case-by-case scenario with priests, as far as when I was in Catholicism your priest was not reachable at all. You could not just go up to your priest like that after Mass, but after a divine liturgy during Trapeza everybody's talking to everybody and I just love that. That's another thing that I also really love about orthodoxy. But let's get into the non-denominational filler traditions that we were talking about.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go ahead and name a few that I've personally experienced within my non-denominational church, and so one example is recently, during Christmas time, they did a candle lit vigil service and it's just like how you were saying they don't know why they're doing it, but it's pretty and so they just want to do it. They don't have a proper understanding, they just want to do it, and so it's like it's interesting to see orthodoxy trick gets all the way down to non-denominational. They maybe have like two, but understand the why behind those traditions. It makes you want to accept all the other wonderful traditions of the church, the reformed Protestants, you have them having icons of people like Martin Luther. So you see it kind of even in Reformed as well. I do remember during a Bible study in a house they had blessed water and anointing oil and it was kind of put up in a cabinet. You know, even with fasting, like we were talking about earlier, it's basically non-existent in non-denominationalism, unless you specifically are seeking it out or searching for it or ask about it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, it's very much. You're right, it's fasting. I spent years as a as protestant christian and in many eras of that time I was, I tried to practice and believe and I was faithful, I think you know, wanted to be devout etc. But so it's very individualist, like, well, if you want to yourself, you personally sure go fast, right, it's very lonely, personal, like you talked about, protestantism is very lonely Christianity and I know there's been a Protestants that don't like hearing that because they know I have lots of friends and I, you know, we go to coffee hour, we have Bible studies and we go preach on the streets.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're not denying that. But there's an element of Protestantism where it's very much you, your Bible in your room by yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no proper guidelines or instructions on how to go about these things. And something else. That's funny they always say pray for me, which is like a tradition that we kind of do, but then they don't believe. They say that there's only one mediator between man and god, and that's jesus christ. And so I'm like you know, how can I? How can I pray? And also, something else that I noticed as well is um, the protestant service is just one big, huge homily. And as far as like baptism with the mediator, again, um, they don't believe in a mediator for confession because they don't like the priest when it comes to the confession, a priest being a mediator. But then they have a mediator for baptism. They cannot baptize. They don't baptize themselves, they get somebody to do it Right.
Speaker 1:And to be clear too, it's the priest is not a mediator, right there, because the Bible is clear there is one mediator between God and man, that's Christ. Christ is our mediator, he's our advocate before God. But people can intercede Right, that's the different people intercede. I can ask you, priscilla, pray for me, right, that's you interceding on my behalf. It doesn't mean you're a mediator. There's a sense in which a loosely sense, we can use that word. But you know, mediator capital M, yeah, it's Christ alone, absolutely, and Orthodox are very crystal clear on that.
Speaker 2:But I do love and respect my non-denominational friends. They were so nice to me, like my church, we ended on great terms, like you'll have stories of people who will question their priest and I mean their pastor and then the pastor gets all aggravated and they get ran out or something. But mine, I was still able to teach the kids class that very last time. That Sunday Next I'm going to talk about all of the reactions that I got when I said I was inquiring into the East and finally move on to all the wonderful things that I love about Eastern Orthodoxy.
Speaker 2:I had some people say that I was brainwashed. Some people said that I was vulnerable because, remember, previously I had stated that I was kind of going through something during that time, and so a lot of them were like you were vulnerable and that's why they got you. Yeah, that's not. I had a person that I was doing bible studies with over the phone and they were really sad and they were actually sobbing that I left and they were like who am I going to do Bible studies with now and I felt really bad. Of course, you have people that were just shocked by this whole thing because it happened so quickly.
Speaker 1:Everybody was just so blindsided, like what Like it happened quickly from the perspective of like a TikTok viewer, but it clearly didn't happen quickly as you talked about. This. Stuff was brewing behind the scenes for a while.
Speaker 2:Someone else said that I was spoon fed, that they were spoon feeding me.
Speaker 1:You continue to search for truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's ultimately, you know why I'm here today. I want to put my testimony out, and if any Protestant is questioning or anybody watching, really I do want them to know that they're not alone. And if I did it, and you know, you can do it too, and it doesn't matter what you've gone through. You know the culture shock, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Priscilla, you and me both right, I'm a former, we're right here on this call right now Two former Protestants, two people who once very ardently believed in the Protestant perspective and the Protestant interpretations of scripture, including Calvinistic interpretations, who are now, by God's grace, in orthodoxy. That's huge Priscilla. When I left Protestantism I was Presbyterian and when I first started going to an Orthodox church, I will never forget the pastor of the church, the Presbyterian Calvinistic church that my parents were attending. They told my parents this particular pastor. He said to my parents your son has left the church.
Speaker 2:I guess to finish off here I have a list of all these wonderful things that I just absolutely love about Eastern Orthodoxy. I feel like at this point right now, currently in my life, I am just absolutely obsessed with Eastern Orthodoxy, Like I feel like I'm in like this honeymoon phase, yeah. So I think for me, like I said, the really the selling point was seeing the love, the grace, the mercy, whole heretic versus heterodox. I really like the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law, the concept of letter versus the spirit yeah.
Speaker 1:The spirit of law and orthodoxy yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for example, like we know that the Sabbath it says in the scriptures, the Sabbath is created for man if he needs it, not the man for the Sabbath. Man is not created for rest, man is created for good works, amen. And the spirit of the law is supposed to not just give relief, but give relief and also point and lead back to the letter of the law. So, for example, a person freezing outside by giving them a coat or bringing them inside your house, you're giving them rest and you are fulfilling the letter of the law. Right, you break the letter temporarily for a greater cause by giving that person relief temporarily and then you point back and revert back. It's always supposed to come back to the letter of the law. And so when he broke the Sabbath, he was by healing that man, he was actually giving him rest and so he could participate in the Sabbath, giving him rest and so he could participate in the sabbath. Um, another one with the spirit versus the letter is rahab, which is jesus's 45th great-grandmother, by the way.
Speaker 2:I don't know she was known as like the prostitute and she lied on with the spies I think for jericho because she knew that, like you know, lying's bad. I'm not supposed to do that, but she broke the letter. For the spirit to point back, ultimately, to the letter to protect me in human life?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:During the catechumen process you get guardian angels. That is so cool to me. The godparents are actually active. You know how I said, in Catholicism they're not really nearly as active. They just kind of fill the roles that needs to get filled, just so you can get baptized and have godparents. But, yeah, active godparents, we use leavened bread. Christ rises, or he rose, and so the bread also rises. Eastern Orthodoxy has allowed me to put my guard down and be vulnerable and trust church authority Because, if I'm being honest, I think Rome has done a very poor example of executing church authority and that's why people are so hesitant to trust church authority, why people are so hesitant to trust church authority and they view tradition as bad, because, oh, look at these corrupt men and people cling on to the sola scriptura, the scriptures.
Speaker 1:Because, like I said, rome has just, in my opinion, from what I'm a, you know, understanding um but the rome has put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, and so protestant yeah, they're bad too, yeah works are viewed as bad.
Speaker 2:And yeah, eastern orthodoxy really helped me unveil all that. And and works are good and the church is, is is. You can trust the church right too. I love the sacraments within eastern orthodox. They're not works-based, as we both know. They are gifts. It's interesting because Protestants who make this claim that they're works, they ironically end up being works-based through many other various means because they lack the sacraments. They end up lacking the sacraments and end up turning workspace through other means, and so you have instances like where they overemphasize no drinking, no smoking, no cussing. You have to watch the TV shows you're watching, watch out for the movies, pay attention to the lyrics and the music. Halloween is bad, it's pagan, you can't celebrate it, or any other holiday. Starbucks and the Monster Energy drinks, you know, because they have these symbols.
Speaker 1:They become legalistic. Yes, yes, ironically, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean works based, and you know, no tattoos. You know, let's see. You know, um, let's see, speaking of speaking of tattoos. So I added the two bars, I changed the latin cross, I went from the latin cross to the obviously well-known byzantine eastern orthodox cross. I love even just the meaning behind the cross itself. Um, as we know, it might be inverted. My camera, oh yeah, it's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1:No, it actually looks great. It looks perfect, at least from what I can see. Yeah, it's correct.
Speaker 2:Okay. So yeah, there's three different meanings behind this, but my favorite meaning is where this bottom line is actually pointing to the thief on the cross. On the cross, and it's an encouraging reminder to always, you know, be like the thief on the cross who was ripped and even you know, um points. It points to him, um. So that was done recently, actually on my birthday happy, happy, belated birthday.
Speaker 1:May God grant you many years.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm still trying to figure out, like, what to say back, because I know there are certain things that you're supposed to say. When somebody says something, you say something back, like my godmother. When I went to church for the new years she had said or it was for january 7th because we're old calendar oh, okay, interesting, okay, yeah, uh-huh. So your christmas yeah, so it was our christmas and she had christ is born and I was just like, like I didn't know right right hey, I didn't know you're supposed to say glorify glorify him, amen, yeah
Speaker 1:so I'm still learning these like little things, yeah and that's one of the beauties of orthodoxy, uh, priscilla, is that there's so the faith is so rich. You have 2000 years of practice, 2000 years of saints, of fathers, of the church, of people who have lived in Orthodoxy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one of the actually going off that. One of the other things that I really love about Orthodoxodoxy is that we don't try to define everything, like in the west, like there are certain things that are mysteries, like the ukraine absolutely we're not going to know how it happens or how it transforms into christ's body and blood, but that's okay, because believe it itself is revealed, but how it comes about and how it comes to and it and it kind of that's kind of an arguing point that you know the west will make against the east is.
Speaker 2:everything's a mystery, and the truth, yeah, the truth actually, though, is that we don't under define things, they over define things. So it makes it look like we're under defining things and that we don't under define things. They over define things, so it makes it look like we're under defining things and that we don't define things enough, because they try to over define. Triple immersion you know, the Didache kind of talks on that. That's kind of some of the differences between the East that I like and I love and I appreciate. Oh, I love the icons. I love icons, even though you know we get told that it's idolatry. Realizing that Luke, saint Luke, one of the 12 apostles he actually painted one of the very first icons of the Theotokos, mary and baby Jesus Something for me was understanding, or coming to this realization, that the body of Christ is not divided. Death does not separate the body of Christ. Nothing can separate us right from the love of God, and it even says in the scriptures not death, nothing. I love that Orthodox have Bible studies too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely too, absolutely, absolutely. I thought I was going to have to give that up and I was really sad and I was like that's something that I'm going to really miss about. You know my Protestantism and my Protestant church, but Orthodox have Bible studies to every single Wednesday. You know, when I was Protestant I would say all these miracles that are happening, you know, with the saints and the icons and all this and the apparitions and all of this stuff. Know, with the saints and the icons and all this and the apparitions and all of this stuff, it's demonic activity. But the scriptures say that where, as mentioned, my patron saint is mary of egypt. Um, one of my favorite quotes from her is he did not desire the death of a sinner, but awaited my conversion that's beautiful and that's from ezekiel 18, 23 as well.
Speaker 2:She was quoting from that.
Speaker 1:Priscilla, you and I can talk about this for for hours and I love, I love your zeal, I love the beautiful, really wild right Story, your testimony that you've told us today. Thank you so much for sharing your time. I want to be able to say you know and show for our audience. Where can they find you? Where?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I actually would just do my link tree. I would just say, if you guys have no of the link tree website.
Speaker 1:I just now clicked on it, just now.
Speaker 2:Usually in my bio. But if you don't, if you, for whatever reason, can't click the link, it's just through link treecom and then forward. Slash my username Priscilla XDestiny.
Speaker 1:I'll put links down in the video as well. I have to say that I love your TikTok. I've always loved it, but I love it even more now. I love it even more now that you're Orthodox. I think I used to love to hate it back in the day before, when we used to love to hate it back in the day before, when we used to, you know, discuss issues together.
Speaker 1:But, priscilla, what an amazing story, what a beautiful journey. I wish you God's continued blessings and grace. Um, you know, if I can give any little tiny piece of advice, is that just continue, uh, to grow and learn, um, in the church, cause, as you know already, there's so much there, right, you'll never exhaust all of it. Right, we could spend our entire lives trying to read all of the writings of the saints and the fathers and the, you know, the councils, the canons will never get to it all, which is a kind of a beautiful thing. So, just enjoy, continue sharing your faith as you do so well. I love the videos that you present showing your parish and the different things. I think it's good for people to see that, because orthodoxy, even though it is growing certainly it's still, in many ways, the best kept secret right in America, and you and your channel are helping people to uncover that secret. So, priscilla, I'm going to give you the last word. What would you like to leave our audience with today?
Speaker 2:I just want to thank you guys so much for just being awesome. I pray that every single one of you hear our conversation today as something that is charitable and that you take something away from it. I know I kind of rambled on a whole lot. I actually was on my very last sentence. I finished everything I got it all out, awesome Good.
Speaker 2:It worked out and I'm very honored to be on here. Follow me if you guys would like to continue watching. You know my journey and how that's going. Follow Jeremy and his friends on cloud of witnesses. Um, and that's kind of all that I really have to say.
Speaker 1:Awesome, priscilla. I want to have you back on Um. Are you interested in doing other episodes with us?
Speaker 2:For sure, definitely.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Yeah, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much. God bless you again. My name is Jeremy. This has been Priscilla joining us today on cloud of witnesses, a journey with the saints. This is Thinking Like the Saints. God bless you.