Eastern Orthodox perspectives on the Mar Mari Emmanuel incident.
When a tragedy unfolds, it can either divide us or unite us in ways we never anticipated. In the aftermath of an attack that shook the Assyrian community, Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel of Australia teaches us a powerful lesson in forgiveness and the strength of prayer. Our guests, Priscilla of PriscillaxDestiny, and Cloud of Witnesses Radio's John join Jeremy to weigh in on how such events transcend theological divides, bringing together believers from various Christian traditions. We explore the ripple effect of the bishop's Christ-like response, and how it echoes the differing yet converging narratives of the New Testament gospels.
As we process the complexities of a youth-led violent act, we're reminded of the transformative power of empathy and guidance. Engaging in a heartfelt discussion, we reflect on the role religious leaders play in shaping the paths of the younger generation towards rehabilitation and understanding. Mar Mari Emmanuel's example of resilience in faith encourages us to consider how theological inclusivity can fortify our collective spirit. Join us as we navigate these waters, uncovering the indelible mark that acts of kindness, rooted in faith, leave on both the giver and receiver, and the potential of such actions to inspire change.
Thank you for journeying w/ the Saints with us!
Eastern Orthodox perspectives on the Mar Mari Emmanuel incident.
When a tragedy unfolds, it can either divide us or unite us in ways we never anticipated. In the aftermath of an attack that shook the Assyrian community, Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel of Australia teaches us a powerful lesson in forgiveness and the strength of prayer. Our guests, Priscilla of PriscillaxDestiny, and Cloud of Witnesses Radio's John join Jeremy to weigh in on how such events transcend theological divides, bringing together believers from various Christian traditions. We explore the ripple effect of the bishop's Christ-like response, and how it echoes the differing yet converging narratives of the New Testament gospels.
As we process the complexities of a youth-led violent act, we're reminded of the transformative power of empathy and guidance. Engaging in a heartfelt discussion, we reflect on the role religious leaders play in shaping the paths of the younger generation towards rehabilitation and understanding. Mar Mari Emmanuel's example of resilience in faith encourages us to consider how theological inclusivity can fortify our collective spirit. Join us as we navigate these waters, uncovering the indelible mark that acts of kindness, rooted in faith, leave on both the giver and receiver, and the potential of such actions to inspire change.
Thank you for journeying w/ the Saints with us!
Hi, this is Jeremy Cloud of.
Speaker 2:Witnesses Radio, and I'm Priscilla.
Speaker 3:My name's John, otherwise known as Villain Typecast.
Speaker 1:Welcome you guys. You guys, we're going to be jumping into an interesting discussion. That just happened right. Really it's a tragedy, but it's a tragedy. Can you guys see my screen?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Maramari Emanuel, the Assyrian bishop in Australia, was attacked and thankfully you know he wasn't. No one was killed. There were some injuries, but it sounds like most of the injuries were fairly treatable, et cetera. How did you guys I'm going to first hear your thoughts how did you guys first hear about this?
Speaker 2:I think I saw it through TikTok, and then a few friends had posted a link on like Discord and Facebook even too. So it was kind of all over social media like Instagram. That's kind of how I found out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I heard about it through the signal chat, uh, group chats, you know people were just posting articles. Yeah, discord, people were talking all over the all over it, you know, on the voice channels and on the chat channels. Yeah, so it's basically just the, you know the, the communication apps that that's where we get our news mostly, so they started to circulate it pretty fast there that's one thing that kind of surprised me about it, because I I think I found out about the same exact way.
Speaker 1:It was um priscilla. We're part of the signal chats. Uh, you know the app signal and we've actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've never heard of it, but sounds interesting.
Speaker 1:It's like whatsapp it's like a whatsapp uh chat app and our our parish. We have a number of chat groups that are associated with it, and that's how I heard about it as well. I saw people posting about it and it just kind of amazed me how quickly information travels right. This news from Australia, literally on the other side of the globe, and we knew about it. You know so so, so quickly in the age of you know information, it's pretty wild but yeah, so here's the image of it.
Speaker 1:You know, um, of the moment it took place. I don't know about you guys, but I heard some pretty incredible stories, uh, related to how he responded, and I don't know because I wasn't there, but I heard someone say that even in the midst of it, right after it happened as they've already apprehended this this guy, the guy was only 16 years old. The perpetrator, um and uh maramari basically prayed for this young boy right after it happened and I thought that was awesome to see. That kind of you know, faith is is really, really incredible, have you?
Speaker 2:I heard recently that he was actually praying during, like while it was happening. He was holding up his cross and praying for him as it was happening. Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he put his hand on his head as he was doing it.
Speaker 1:That's what I heard. Okay, yeah, yeah. So these other details, I love that. I think that's beautiful. You know, you guys, it reminds me of um.
Speaker 1:If you've ever heard descriptions of the new Testament, um, it's often. You know, we have the four synoptic gospels right, or at least the three right. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John isn't necessarily considered synoptic in the same way, but you have these retellings of these stories right Of the events of Christ's earthly ministry, and people often comment Priscilla, this is right up your alley, because I know you are always very interested in apologetics and defending the faith. People often comment oh, how can you believe the New Testament? Right, Because what Mark says is different than what Matthew says and it's different than what Luke says.
Speaker 1:And I truly believe that what we're talking about right now is an example of how true the New Testament is, and that's because there is difference in testimony. You have one event that occurred right? All three of us heard slightly different stories related to one true event, right? Yeah, none of it's inconsistent in the sense that it's not contradictory. It's just that, chrysalia, you heard that he was praying for him during the entire thing. I heard he was praying for him right after the fact, John, you heard that he put his hand on his head in. You know all these details.
Speaker 2:That's how human beings tell stories, and it does not take away from the situation. It doesn't take away from the overall situation.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I also love that. You know, despite him being known by others. As you know, nestorian, we all came together, you know, as Christians, and we're just very appalled by the whole situation.
Speaker 1:Right, amen, priscilla, amen, let me pause this. Oh, no, it's going to get in my way. Hold on, okay. Can you guys see this? Yes, okay, okay, can you guys see this? Yes, okay. This is a friend of ours named jonathan, over at roots of orthodoxy. He has an absolutely phenomenal uh orthodox channel. Uh, any of you guys that haven't visited his channel please do. But he posted this um on his uh instagram, and these are this is right after the the stabbing took place and this blew me away, so I reposted it through cloud of witnesses wanting to show solidarity, and here's what he said. He said unfortunately, I had to disable the comments on this post. This man was just attacked in his church and people are more focused on which tradition he belongs to. Lord, have mercy on us all. Let us keep him in our prayers.
Speaker 1:We can discuss the differences between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Eastern Orthodox at another time, and I thought that was such an important statement because, priscilla, I experienced the same thing you did, which is the vast majority of Christians came together in prayer for this man that God would save him, protect him, have mercy on him and all those involved in this situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know. Any human being or individual should not want or desire that for anyone, even you know, christian or not, I just think but especially for Christians. If you truly believe that everybody is made in the image of God, then you should not want that or wish that upon anyone 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:John, I want to get your thoughts on this, but as you're gathering your thoughts, I want to kind of piggyback on what you just said, priscilla, because I think it's important.
Speaker 1:I think that you know even people that were perhaps wanting to focus on the differences. You know the distinctions of Assyrian Orthodoxy and Eastern Orthodoxy, etc. You know, I think that I hope that they're well-intentioned. I don't. I wouldn't think that they are wishing anyone to be hurt or anything, but the idea that the theology is in some way more important or it's like we have to mention. We have to mention this, you know, as opposed to us saying hey look, this is like you said, priscilla, this is an icon of God, right, this is someone created in the image of God. And sure, we do have some differences in terms of our theology and the way we view certain elements of the faith. But to my mind and I'll speak for myself here, I'm certainly not speaking for anybody else these types of things are in the the mercy and grace of God, right, where God is going to fall, in terms of his grace, on me or these other people, it's totally outside of my hands, you know. I just think it's important to say that, you know.
Speaker 2:And I also, you know, I heard that the, you know, another great thing that came I mean not necessarily great, but another thing that I heard from the situation was that the what is it? The shield of the knife did not fully come off whenever he went to go and make the attempt to do those actions.
Speaker 2:Um, right so, yeah, he he was. He was basically an un, not unharmed, but, you know, um walked away with as little harm as as he could have in that situation and, yeah, I do believe that he was. I, you know, what I heard is that he was holding up his cross as that was happening. And and also, another thing that I saw in a video was that there was a crowd. Actually, I mean, you know, we're humans, we're fallible and we let our emotions get the best of us and there was a crowd standing outside that was very upset. You know, you could hear in the background bring him out, bring him out. And that was obviously in regards to the 16 year old Um. But I mean, how, how do you guys, you know, feel about that, or what is your reaction to that?
Speaker 3:Well, we can't repay evil for evil. You can't repay evil for evil. You can't destroy evil with more evil. You can't get rid of murder with more murder. Because, yeah, it was clear.
Speaker 3:I mean, I know somebody who lives there and who personally knows the people who know marmarie over there in australia, and, yeah, from what I heard was that, yeah, not only was there an angry mob of parishioners who were seeking to do this young man great harm, they were also, I think, trying multiple times to actually take the law into their own hands and I think they failed each and every time they did. It was just a crazy chaotic situation. It was something that, as a history buff, reminds me of all the riots that took place in Alexandria heresy and theological controversies, and even when, I don't know, I guess their bishops would be attacked, some Christians would stand up and defend them physically, defend them against marauders and assailants. But in this case, you know, in a similar vein, you know these people obviously loved their bishop and wanted to stand up for him, but I guess it was taken to, I guess too far. I mean far to the extent that they wanted to just get revenge.
Speaker 2:Basically, have you yeah, have you guys heard any like as far as law goes, because you did mention it a bit earlier, do you know if any repercussions or, you know, has any action been taken against the 16 year?
Speaker 1:old. I heard, I heard that he he is in custody so he's been apprehended. So I would I would assume that their, that their legal process is going to have to, you know, work itself out. My my is that, uh, because he's 16, I'm sure australia has some sort of a juvenile uh detention facility that he's probably going to stay in um temporarily. I doubt they're going to let him out uh, usually with violent crimes uh, they would not let him out on on bail, so he'll most likely stay um uh incarcerated until he has, I would assume, an eventual trial etc.
Speaker 1:Um the fact that this kind of thing gets caught on video and seen around the world, etc. Um you, it's kind of hard to imagine how uh this, this young man, this child, really doesn't uh end up spending many, many, many years. Um, although I can't speak, for I don't know Australia's legal system at all Can we say to I want to pose this question to you guys can we talk a little bit about uh prayers for this clearly deranged, lost 16 year old? You know uh man, young man, what do you guys think? I mean, I don't know anything about him, I haven't heard um, but clearly troubled uh and and you know. What do you guys think about that?
Speaker 2:um, so I, I believe his background was is or is, uh, muslim or islam correct? But you know, nonetheless, once again, despite religion, I, I think you know, if even Mari Mari Emanuel can pray for this young boy, then we should, as Christians, follow by his example and not be like the crowd or the mob that wants to repay evil for evil and an eye for an eye, kind of thing. But, yeah, pray for him and over him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he's clearly young and he probably was brainwashed by somebody who influenced him. Yeah, and he's clearly young and he probably was brainwashed by somebody who influenced him. He probably has somebody or a group of people influencing him for the worst because he's 16, 16 year olds. I was a 16 year old and you know you read whatever you read on the internet. You're easily influenced and you're being pushed and pulled around like crazy. So a 16 year old, you know who you know, was trying to find his own way.
Speaker 3:This kid obviously was told by somebody to do something like this, or at least indirectly he was.
Speaker 3:He felt like, okay, his interpretation of his religion, um, permitted him to do this and he felt like he was doing the right thing, like he was actually fighting for the cause of righteousness in his own mind and so, yeah, he honestly, when I heard about, uh, you know, mara Manuel putting his hand on the boy as he was injured, praying for him, kind of made me think, gave me this image of, let's say, a physician who is dealing with a person who is clearly insane in a, in a straight jacket or maybe outside the straight jacket, and he's just very erratic and violent and in the midst of trying to help a sick person. Yeah, you'll, you'll get hit yourself, you'll get struck, and you'll be possibly, you know, be on the receiving end of, you know, whatever behavior they put up. And it just seemed like, yeah, like that image of the physician who cares about a crazy person clearly crazy person despite of, you know, in spite of retaining bruises and stuff, he's still willing to help them. I mean, of course, yeah, mar Emmanuel, yeah, we, you know he's not an Orthodox bishop, but still, even as somebody who is outside the church, he shows a very good example of how to respond in that situation. That's, that's a, that's a lesson for everybody.
Speaker 2:Amen, I, I agree. I think definitely at his age he's very impressionable, and I do. I can only hope for not just him, but everybody. You know, we for us to everything that we go through. These are all this. All happens for a reason and maybe this is, you know, god's way of calling him and through him, being in this time of isolation, and you know, if he does go to jail, that's his opportunity to really reflect and ultimately repent.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Amen, and that that that highlights how important it is for those within the church to operate and to behave in a Christian, christ-like way. Right, because it makes me think. I loved how you said that this, this young man, is going to have to face a lot of thinking about what he did, and that he'll have to grapple with the fact that the man he tried to stab was praying for him and and was seeking his uh, his redemption. This is actually a perfect time. You guys wanted to share this with you. Um, this video here? If this is the one, is this the one?
Speaker 4:I so listen to this I know it's ugly, I know sometimes it is unbearable, but in a way you need to thank god. You know why? Because if you're getting attacked, that means Christ is really very close with you, in you and walking along with you. That's why you are getting on Satan's nerve. So thank the Lord and say Lord, it's very unbearable, this trial, but you're with me. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Psalm 23 for you are with me pretty, pretty awesome perspective, right?
Speaker 2:oh my gosh, I'm like getting a little bit emotional, just like watching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely right, it's, and john it's a. John said it himself, you know he, he definitely exhibited Christian, a Christian response to this. And here you see, he was even ahead of time, talking about facing death and what death means. Anyone from the ancient Christian practice is very well aware, right, of God's use of challenges in our lives to bring us closer to him. And I think that, you know, mario Emanuel is kind of showing that. Now I want to make it really clear, because I know that there are going to be certain people that hear this conversation and they're going to want to just purely focus on the fact that he, you know he's an historian or you know something along the lines of he venerates, you know, um nestor I, I, yeah, I feel like they just missed the bigger picture.
Speaker 2:The bigger picture here, ultimately, is like you can see his strong faith and love for God and you know, just because he has a few like doctrine or theology that's a little bit off, that doesn't mean everything he teaches is just completely wrong after that point or he's just automatically fully discredited. I believe a lot of his sermons have so much truth in them and they're very beautiful, and I think this situation is just very humbling because to me it shows that even despite having theological differences, even despite having theological differences, the way that he handled it.
Speaker 3:It just gives all glory to God. Yeah, I mean, we can get into the nitty gritty and the theological differences, you know, and the church does make statements about what we believe. But I mean, if this was a Protestant, like just any Protestant evangelical who did the same thing, I think the response should be identical. It's that, yeah, what he did there in and of itself, right there, in isolation to everything else. Yeah, that's a good example that we should follow in that moment, in that situation. So even people who are Orthodox, who are in the church, who have the fullness of the truth, should definitely look at that and go, yeah, we need to definitely step up our game here. You know, like if there's something like that in our life that we're missing, maybe we should try to apply it, and if somebody outside the church is more than capable of doing this, then there's no reason for us not to yeah that's how I see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no very well said us not to. Yeah, that's how I see it. You know, when I yeah, no very well said to to maybe put that another way, or how I see that is, we can appreciate his uh response, right, his gracious christian response, and that doesn't mean that we're saying, hey, we agree with everything he believes theologically Like, of course not. Yeah, because, john, you make the exact same point. We could be talking about a Protestant. We could be talking about a Roman Catholic. Right, we are going to have differences with other people, and that's not to say that they're not acting or exuding behaviors and responses. That are things that we can learn from right that we can actually use to better ourselves yeah
Speaker 1:yeah, I, you know stories like this. They're I don't know. It's kind of like life right. There are parts of me that find these stories inspiring and you know, you want to say, you know, look at people coming together, even people with differences, and that you know the kind of the solidarity and the prayer for this man and that type of thing. And then there's this other side where you're like, oh man, you know, it's like humans at it again. You know humans at it again.
Speaker 1:And I think, ultimately, I feel like I could channel reader John who would say wisely and I would agree with him something along the lines of we can't control other people. I can't control the theology of of, you know, maramari. I can't control the zeal and um chaotic response of that crowd outside the church. I can't, uh, control, you know, the nestorian debate, etc. Etc. But what can I control? I can control my own self. I can control, lord willing, my own humility, attempt to be humble, my own desire for the grace and mercy of god, undeserved, and, and so I just want to kind of that's where I want to come back to in this conversation is I'm, I'm in no position to judge, I'm, I'm a nobody, I'm a. I'm a sinner, you know, fallen short of the glory of God, and I'm not clergy, so I just want to rely on on Christ, uh, and, and the truth, like you were saying, John in his church, um, and leave the rest to the mercy and grace of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah Amen, I agree with that completely.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You guys have have anything on this uh topic, that, that, that you want to say or add or anything else whatsoever.
Speaker 2:I mean, I, I would say I just I agree with you. You know we are, we all fall at the mercy of God at the end of the day. You know we're all going to need to, we're all going to need the same grace on Judgment Day, and so no one's better than another. And I, I like I said it, you know, like you you mentioned earlier, stated earlier, he just his story or the situation is inspiring because of how he, his reaction to the whole thing. And I just I want to emulate that as a christian, because you don't know how you're going to react in that situation.
Speaker 3:most of us would probably try to fight back and in self-defense, but you know, um, yeah, I mean, I'm just the whole thing, I, I'm, I'm just amazed amen, and there's a time and place for everything with the things, the how we approach, um, you know, an issue, whether it's theological or political or personal, Um, I mean, yeah, of course, let's say you had a friend who was Roman Catholic or Protestant and they were very severely injured, Um, and they needed you to minister to them and help them. Obviously, that's not a time to be doing apologetical debates, it's not a time to be, you know, refuting Protestantism or Catholicism point by point. As he is bleeding and dying in your arms, I mean, that's a time to be ministering to him, praying for him and, you know, doing what you need to in order to save the human life. Of course, we can talk about the theological differences in a time that is appropriate, but when a human life is at stake, when an icon of God is being destroyed and you know God is being destroyed and you know these people need our prayers Obviously that's not the appropriate time to be getting into apologetics or anathemas or anything like that.
Speaker 3:That's a time to be really honing in and zeroing in on the present issue, the present needs of the time. Right, that's not to. And being sympathetic, you know, towards another person's suffering doesn't necessitate that we have to compromise our faith and our beliefs. That's not what that means, right? A lot of people might misunderstand that to be a form of compromise or ecumenism. That's not what that is.
Speaker 2:It's simply doing what Christ commands, and it's it's naturally, a naturally human response to show sympathies for another human being suffering um, I agree with that compromise I I I would like to add to that, like you know, in situations like we don't look back, or even in present time we don't look at situations like 9-11 or school shootings and then and ask you know, are they roman, catholic or we don't, we don't ask what their religion is or what faith group they align with, when we, as we, are having sympathies for them. And so I think the same should be applied here, like it's no different yeah, you guys, you know what story I cannot help but think about.
Speaker 1:It seems so apropos the story of the good samaritan. You guys, right, you guys know the story. Right, you have, uh, someone who is a jew who's, as you know, right on the side of the road. He was struck with robbers and and injured, and laying on the side of the road and the samaritan, who remember they had their own temple. Right, they were, in essence, they were a offshoot of judaism. Right, they were a their own sect, their own body. What did christ commend the samaritan for doing? For doing exactly what you said, right, john, he sat there and he, he lectured the jew on how the true temple no, I'm kidding, right, but right, what? What did he actually do? He met, as you said, john, he ministered to him, he took him to the end, he used his own money and and gave it to the innkeeper and said play, you know, to take care of this man, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's what christ commended and I can't everybody.
Speaker 2:Everyone else had passed him up, had passed him by, and the samaritan and the other. You know it was a jew, correct? Just making sure they're not supposed to associate with one another.
Speaker 1:Right, they were bitter enemies that they were, they would not almost ever talk and interact with one another. I think that's a great point. You guys it's like you know had that Samaritan said oh it's, you know, he's, this is a Jew and we don't agree on anything, and theologically we're in totally different camps, so therefore let his own people take care of him. Right, he could have gone on with his day, but that's not what he did. He reached out and ministered, showing his faith, his faith in god and christ. It seems to me, in his commendation of that, um, samaritan is telling us a huge, huge lesson here I think we can apply today yeah, yeah, and god will judge each and every person differently.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, of course, a person not everybody was brought up orthodox. Not everybody was brought up in the right religion. But God will look at what we know, how much of the truth that we actually know, and we who are in the church, we are the most responsible for what we have compared to somebody who was brought up in a Nestorian denomination, roman Catholicism. God will look at each and every circumstance that people are in. He's not going to say, he's not going to fault anybody for something they don't know yet. Right it's. You know it's not up to us to decide where they're headed. You know, because you don't know their real disposition, and you know ministering to somebody who is in need in that moment could be the best apologetic that one can actually put up. That is, you are showing forth, you are incarnating Christ's presence on earth by actually doing that. You're showing Christ more strongly, more fully, by the deeds rather than just the words and the refutations, and you know talking about all the differences 100%.
Speaker 1:That goes back to and we can, we'll give our closing thoughts here in a moment, guys that goes back to this notion that who knows the fate of this young, this you, 16 year old, um, uh, perpetrator of this crime? Right, he's gonna have to grapple with uh maramari's graciousness and humility and and and prayers for the for the rest of his life. Who knows how that will affect his, his soul and his perspective? Because, like you said, john, earlier, who knows what has been fed to this young man? Right, who knows what, what stories he's been told, what narratives he's he's ingested, you know what, um, you know radical teachings he's come to believe. Maybe facing someone like that is going to have a profound effect on him and we let's pray that it will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as far as closing thoughts for me on you know, this subject, on my end I kind of don't really have any. I said everything kind of. You know that, as that was on my mind, I kind of spoke it as we were going and so.
Speaker 1:Awesome, priscilla. Why don't you tell our audience how people can find you and we were talking about it before we started this episode today about that banner behind you. Where can, where can people hear more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I do have a tick tock. It is at Priscilla x destiny you can learn about. If you see this flag back here and you think it's really cool and you like it, I actually do a video explaining it. Um, it's one of my. It is one of my, my more recent videos, um, and I I go into detail about where I got it too as well, so if you want to check that out, um, my tiktok is at priscilla x destiny and the the illustri John the villain, typecast John.
Speaker 3:Wilkins, where can people find you? You can find me on. You can find me on Cloud of Witnesses podcast. You can find me on the episodes I'm on for the Lies of the Saints, and you can also find me on Screwtape Returns. We have some cool new projects regarding screw tape and and soon to be, um in the shorts around you.
Speaker 1:Um, yes, really exciting. Yes, all right, cool. Well, you guys, thank you very much for being part of this conversation today. Um, again, we were sans Nick. Nick was, and I think Tears as well. Hopefully they're okay and they can join us soon. For you listening right now. Thank you for listening here to the end. This has been Cloud Witnesses Radio. This is yes, but, and we hope to see you guys on the next one. Bye-bye.
Speaker 3:On the next one. Bye-bye On the next one.