The Hidden Battle for Christian Icons - The Triumph of Saint Theodora the Empress! | CWJS036 CWP057
Mar 25, 2024Episode 57
Cloud of Witnesses cast and crew
Icons have been part of Christian practice from the earliest of times in the Church. Yet, there were eras where the practice was questioned and debated. See how God used one woman's faithful courage to help preserve the use of icons for the world over.
Embark with us on a narrative voyage through time, where the veils of history part to reveal the enthralling saga of Saint Theodora the Empress, a figure of clandestine faith in the 9th century Byzantine Empire. Experience the fervor and secrecy of an era where a solitary empress waged a silent war within the imperial walls, defying the iconoclastic edicts of her husband, Emperor Theophilus, to keep the flame of icon veneration alive. As Theodora's tale of resilience unfolds, we peel back layers of religious conflict, exploring how her covert worship with icons as "beautiful dolls" became both a symbol of resistance and a precarious dance with danger, particularly when the court jester Dendera teeters on the brink of exposing everything she holds sacred.
Step deeper into the spiritual resonance of Orthodox Christianity as we honor Saint Theodora's enduring legacy in preserving sacred iconography, a tradition pivotal to church doctrine as crystallized by the Seventh Ecumenical Council at Nicaea. Join us in reflecting on the protracted acceptance of conciliar decisions, mirroring the early church's struggle with Arianism, and delve into the incarnational symbolism that icons bestow upon the Christian narrative. We'll contrast the variances in iconographic traditions across Christian denominations, and we'll cap off our journey with a reverent acknowledgement of Saint Theodora's liturgical commemoration and the larger celebration of the triumph of Orthodoxy within the ecclesiastical calendar, inviting you to experience the depth of belief that transcends time and continues to shape the essence of faith.
Prayerfully consider supporting Cloud of Witnesses Radio by becoming a Patreon today. https://www.patreon.com/CloudofWitnessesRadio
Icons have been part of Christian practice from the earliest of times in the Church. Yet, there were eras where the practice was questioned and debated. See how God used one woman's faithful courage to help preserve the use of icons for the world over.
Embark with us on a narrative voyage through time, where the veils of history part to reveal the enthralling saga of Saint Theodora the Empress, a figure of clandestine faith in the 9th century Byzantine Empire. Experience the fervor and secrecy of an era where a solitary empress waged a silent war within the imperial walls, defying the iconoclastic edicts of her husband, Emperor Theophilus, to keep the flame of icon veneration alive. As Theodora's tale of resilience unfolds, we peel back layers of religious conflict, exploring how her covert worship with icons as "beautiful dolls" became both a symbol of resistance and a precarious dance with danger, particularly when the court jester Dendera teeters on the brink of exposing everything she holds sacred.
Step deeper into the spiritual resonance of Orthodox Christianity as we honor Saint Theodora's enduring legacy in preserving sacred iconography, a tradition pivotal to church doctrine as crystallized by the Seventh Ecumenical Council at Nicaea. Join us in reflecting on the protracted acceptance of conciliar decisions, mirroring the early church's struggle with Arianism, and delve into the incarnational symbolism that icons bestow upon the Christian narrative. We'll contrast the variances in iconographic traditions across Christian denominations, and we'll cap off our journey with a reverent acknowledgement of Saint Theodora's liturgical commemoration and the larger celebration of the triumph of Orthodoxy within the ecclesiastical calendar, inviting you to experience the depth of belief that transcends time and continues to shape the essence of faith.
Prayerfully consider supporting Cloud of Witnesses Radio by becoming a Patreon today. https://www.patreon.com/CloudofWitnessesRadio
Thank you for journeying w/ the Saints with us!
Speaker 1:
Hi, this is Jeremy. Hi, this is Nick. This is Cloud of Witnesses Journey with the Saints.
Speaker 2:
We hope you enjoy this episode On the life of Saint Theodora the Empress.
Speaker 3:
Come Theodora. Why the sad face? The people want to see their new empress. Maybe you aren't aware of this, but I've got on to your icon-worshiping practices.
Speaker 4:
What.
Speaker 3:
From this day forth, I forbid you to practice your idolatry. My servants are burning your icons as we speak.
Speaker 5:
Hello and welcome to Cloud of Witnesses' Journey with the Saints a dynamic full cast retelling of the lives of the Saints.
Speaker 6:
Our story begins in a tumultuous time in the church. I know the church. It is the 9th century, and though the church has enjoyed hundreds and hundreds of years as a united body, the issue of iconography became a hotly debated topic. The year is 813 AD, and Emperor Leo V has called a public assembly where thousands of his supporters gather to celebrate Leo's announcements.
Speaker 7:
For too long has the Empire tolerated the idolatrous, God-hating practice of the use of graven images. Today, people of the Empire, I declare the use of icons to be an act against the Empire itself, an act against the faith and an act against God himself.
Speaker 5:
You're kidding.
Speaker 7:
Today, if you destroy an icon, you make God happy, and if you turn in an iconophile to the authorities, you make this Empire stronger.
Speaker 6:
In her 20th year, one year after the death of Emperor Leo V. Theodora, a remarkable beauty, had distinguished herself in piety and learning, such that it was not mere rumor among the royal court that Ifrosini had her eye on Theodora as a prospective bride for her son, ruler.
Speaker 8:
What is your name? Daughter of the Empire.
Speaker 4:
Theodora Grand Empress.
Speaker 8:
Youphrosini is my name by birth. Please forgive me for startling you from your prayers. I only ask that you one add my son to your prayers and two Theodora. Be more careful. Some things are too precious to risk in open places.
Speaker 4:
Thank you. Thank you, Grand Empress.
Speaker 5:
Yes, yes, thank you for delivering the message. Lord, have mercy, theodora, theodora, come quickly. You will not believe this. My child, what is it, mother? Sit down, sit down, you're to meet, to meet.
Speaker 4:
To meet who Mother tell me.
Speaker 5:
You're to meet the Emperor himself. You have been summoned to the royal palace. A royal messenger left here after delivering the message just a few minutes ago.
Speaker 4:
But why would I go to meet the Emperor? Did I do something wrong?
Speaker 6:
Theodora could not help but let fear enter her mind that perhaps her icons had been discovered.
Speaker 4:
She thought to run back to her room in that moment. But she knew her icons were safe under her bed. She had prayed with them not an hour before.
Speaker 5:
Ask yourself instead, why would the Emperor ask to meet you? Think about it, my beautiful daughter. The handsome Emperor remains unmarried. But, mother, I know you'll need a new dress.
Speaker 4:
No, mother, he's. He's not much older than you. He's an iconic last. I refuse to marry him.
Speaker 6:
But, as Garza willed, the young and beautiful Theodora in fact did win the hearts of Theophilus, and soon they were married.
Speaker 3:
Come Theodora? Why the sad face? The people want to see their new empress.
Speaker 4:
To think I would be married in a barren church, devoid of the face of Christ and his saints.
Speaker 3:
Theodora, you know that I love you. Maybe you aren't aware of this, but I've got on to your icon worshipping practices.
Speaker 4:
What.
Speaker 3:
Look at all these people. They look to us, to you, as their example. Don't tear this empire apart with your dissident beliefs. From this day forth, I forbid you to practice your idolatry. My servants are burning your icons as we speak.
Speaker 4:
What, what in the world Theophilus? How could you?
Speaker 3:
How could I, theodora, I could have sent you to your execution with such a discovery? Take this as a warning From this day forth, you will practice the true religion of the Eastern Roman Empire.
Speaker 9:
My god go on.
Speaker 4:
A beautiful couple for a beautiful empire. Oh, euphrostinie, what a choice you've made in Theodora.
Speaker 8:
Indeed, she is beautiful inside and out. I believe that God shall work wonders through her.
Speaker 6:
As the years went by, Theodora raised seven beautiful children for Theophilus. With Euphrostinie's help, Theodora was able to raise her children in true piety, allowing them to pray and see the face of their Savior and all his saints, but only in complete secrecy.
Speaker 4:
Come children. We are going to visit Grandma Euphrostinie. Mama, are we going to play with the beautiful dolls?
Speaker 6:
These beautiful dolls were in fact icons.
Speaker 9:
Theophilus, the ruler king. What kind of tidings does he bring? They call him the ruler of this land, but now he's drunk and cannot stand.
Speaker 7:
Theophilus, my friend, it's too true. Can you stand of those two legs?
Speaker 3:
Take it back, you slobbering dog.
Speaker 4:
Dendaris sing us another song All right then, here's another one.
Speaker 9:
My lord Theophilus, the empire's strong, and so I'll sing you a new song. You think your walls are tall, and true, but an enemy lurks within your crew.
Speaker 3:
Stop the music. What did you say, you creepy little man?
Speaker 9:
Uh, my lord, I only make jest of what I see.
Speaker 3:
Theophilus. My friend, you only jokes. I'll make a jest out of him.
Speaker 9:
Help, help, I'll explain. Let me go Then speak true. Dendera speaks what. Dendera sees An empress with icons made from paint and trees what.
Speaker 3:
Prove it, you little liar.
Speaker 9:
I-I will, i-i can you see, as I walked within your palace, a fly. I found within your chalice, your wife and family. Oh so pretty. I saw with icons. Oh so petty.
Speaker 7:
An icon from the adulterers.
Speaker 3:
We're in, not friends.
Speaker 1:
I'll take care of this in the morning.
Speaker 4:
Brother Euphulsini, why have we all been brought here today?
Speaker 8:
I-I'm not sure. Theodora, I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:
My dear subjects. I have brought you all here as witnesses, witnesses to a true horror and act of blasphemy.
Speaker 4:
This doesn't sound good.
Speaker 3:
This icon, this idol, was found within my walls.
Speaker 4:
Theodora, what are we to do? I-i-i don't know. I just hope the children don't get dragged into this.
Speaker 3:
And, what's worse, my own wife, Theodora, was framed by our court jester Vendee.
Speaker 9:
Oh, my goodness, what.
Speaker 4:
Oh, dear God, thank you, god the awfuless, has spared us.
Speaker 3:
Guards, this jester has played his last act. Take him away and know that this man is never allowed within the walls of Constantinople again.
Speaker 9:
Huh, what? No, not I, not I Dendaris, let go of me. I am Dendaris, the jester of the Royal Court.
Speaker 4:
The awfuless. I-i wanted to thank you for all that.
Speaker 3:
Don't speak of this any more. You know that I forbid you, Don't make me how to be a saint. Next time I may not be so merciful, nor may I be able to find such an alibi for you.
Speaker 6:
By the providence of God. Shortly after this event, the awfuless fell ill and sometime soon later had died.
Speaker 4:
Leaving the empire in the hands of the now-emperor, the Adora. As my first act as Empress, I restore for the empire the statement of the Christian Church as expounded in the Seventh and Great Council not many years ago at Nicaea, that the use of Christian images is good and right and a part of the true Orthodox practice.
Speaker 6:
Saint Empress, theodora, great to God for us.
Speaker 1:
Wow, nick, what an episode huh.
Speaker 2:
Another amazing story.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, the story of Saint Theodora the Empress, who really, in many ways, is the person that God used to preserve the use of icons throughout his church right, the entire empire at the time.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's really interesting because the Seventh Ecumenical Council is actually years before and had already ratified and said that this is a legitimate practice and teaching of the church, but still, as it happened many times in history, the heresy, the malpractice, etc.
Speaker 1:
Continued even after the official statement was given Right right, which is kind of echoes, and those of you listening right now you can go back and listen. We have an episode, a two-part episode actually. The First I Came in a Council. The same thing happened there, right.
Speaker 1:
The First I Came in a Council decried and labeled as heresy the Arian teachings. Arianism continued to flourish for the next 40, 60 years or so until the second ecumenical council finally really put its foot down on it, if you will. So it's interesting how the way the councils work and, nick, this really speaks to Orthodoxy, doesn't it? The conciliar method, as opposed to in the West. It's like okay, well, they just name a decree and kind of like, on that day or now, this is official.
Speaker 1:
In Orthodoxy, even the councils have to be accepted by the church as a whole. Right, it takes time. As I'm sure you know, there are plenty of councils that have claimed to be ecumenical in a certain sense but haven't been accepted more broadly, and it's like history tells the story as opposed to the people that are in it right at the moment, so to speak. So it is. It's a fascinating event in history and that God would use a faithful woman and her family really to carry on and to preserve this practice of the church. I just find this is remarkable and such a gift to the life of saints around the church.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's very interesting to hear that they were called the beautiful dolls by her and her family as kind of a code name for the icons, and the fact that in one sense I feel like as an Orthodox Christian we can take for granted the fact that we see the face of Christ and that we see the face of the saints, et cetera. For us it's very integral. But it's kind of scary to think, at least as an Orthodox Christian, to think that without that you don't see the face of Christ right and in one sense he becomes yet this ethereal being who never actually became incarnate. Almost, and I think that's the point at least one of the points of iconography is that, no, he did come in the flesh and that means that we can and should depict him for people to be seen, for him to be seen by people, I mean 100%.
Speaker 1:
You nailed it that is so important to understand. I hope people don't get tired of hearing it, but I'm a former Protestant and I know for a fact now as an Orthodox Christian, looking back on the time when I was Protestant. You're absolutely right. The fact that Christ is not seen in that sense he's not depicted. The cross that would be in any church, I would amen. The cross that I would see in a Protestant church every Sunday was an empty cross. They actually provided themselves in it being an empty cross because they were.
Speaker 1:
You know they're Protestants or anti-Catholic, and Catholics, as we all know, have crucifixes shows Christ on the cross, and so you have all these empty crosses in Protestantism. And it really does, nick. It becomes this well, god is up here. Right, faith in Christ is up here. Yeah, sure, maybe it's here, but it's not in a person, right, it's not in the incarnation of God. Yes, theologically they believe that, of course, but in practice, like you said, you're not looking into the eyes of Christ, right, you're not seeing. And then I think, the extension of that, nick I want to get your thoughts on this by extension, then it's harder to see your brother and your sister as an icon as well. Right yeah, Same sense, because we're creating the image of God and I think there's even that disconnect Interesting, just healthy use of icons.
Speaker 2:
It's true, there's more of an emphasis on the incarnational and resurrection aspect, as opposed to only the sacrificial right. There's not so much an emphasis in the Orthodox Church of the cross and the sacrifice in that sense, but rather that holistic experience of God coming to save the entire aspect of the person, not just simply to pay a debt to an angry father.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, 100%, it's such a beautiful thing. Our listeners probably know at this stage that today is the vindication of Orthodoxy. Right, it's a beautiful time in the church where we remember this. Really, this event, it's granted it's focused on the Seventh Decumenical Council, but, as you already pointed out, nick, what St Theodore of the Empress did was she preserved what was already, you know, instantiated in the 7th Dictum of Coalsel, and so we really celebrate her as well. And it's kind of interesting Like I'm kind of I was thinking from a liturgical perspective she's not mentioned by name today, at least to my knowledge. Did I? Did I miss?
Speaker 2:
that Do you know anything about? In Matton's? She's commemorated, but she also has she also has her own separate feast day in February. So right, but 311th I believe.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I just wasn't sure if she was actually mentioned by name. That's great, I've heard that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah so yeah, it's a really beautiful thing and to see from this story, god willing, you got to see her bravery, right, and what it took for her because, you're right, she had to use even code names. She was still teaching her children about these things. You know her husband, who's the literally the ruler of the free world at the time. Truly, truly amazing right, just an actual life of faith lived out. So, yeah, we really hope that you enjoyed this episode and this brief discussion. Regarding Saint Theodora, nick, where can people find us on the web?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, you can find us anywhere Podcasts can be heard, whether that's Google podcast, Apple, Spotify, YouTube. You can also find us on Instagram and Facebook, so absolutely.
Speaker 1:
And if you're at all inclined, we would ask that if you're interested in supporting this ministry, supporting Cloud of Witnesses Radio. We do have a Patreon page, as Nick mentioned. Go check us out over there. We try to keep it up with. You know, fun things to see behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:
Hopefully more over time as well, and we're just very, very grateful yeah we've got a lot of projects on the horizon and we're really excited to share them with you as they get cooked.
Speaker 1:
Exactly right. That's a lot of cooking going on in the kitchen right now. There really is. There really is Seeing all of it yet, but by God's grace it'll be coming out over time. So thank you for being here, thank you for listening this long into the episode. We're incredibly grateful and thank you to our voice actors, nick. They did a great job on the episode and we are eternally grateful for their volunteer time. Indeed Bye, bye, signing off.
Speaker 7:
Hi, I am Robert and I played Leo the Fifth.
Speaker 6:
Hello, my name is Christian. I voiced one of the iconic class and one of the friends of the Emperor. Hi, my name is Dante and I was narrator one.
Speaker 8:
Hi, this is Lorenda and I played. Oh my gosh, what's your?
Speaker 4:
name Uffda Euphroia, euphroia.
Speaker 8:
Hold on, okay. Hi, this is Lorenda. I played Euphrosony.
Speaker 9:
This is Nick and I played Dendaris. No, not I.
Speaker 3:
This is John, and I portrayed Emperor Theophilus.
Speaker 4:
This is Hannah and I played Theodora, and that's a wrap.
Speaker 5:
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Cloud Witnesses Journey with the Saints. We hope it proved to be exciting and inspiring for all of our listeners. May God, through the prayers of his most pure mother and all the saints, guide us all to the heavenly homeland. We hope to see you next time here on Cloud of Witnesses Journey with the Saints.